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[twillight]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

It's perfectly viable to use all threes weapon types regardless of which is the most efficient, including Unarmed (especially in FO2) (although Melee is altogether useless in both FO1 and FO2).

Luck will not cause you to miss, that's only factored by your skills. What Luck WILL do, is not only reduce your critical chance, but increase your critical failure rate, and on Luck 1 it is entirely apparent.

Also level 24 is not easily achievable with all the quests, level 21 is the highest you will get to in both FO1 and FO2 if you manage to complete the majority of quests. Anything more will take grinding in random encounters.

Take a look at the damn guide I posted for Christ's sake.

It is (especially in F1) viable even to not use weapons at all. So what? But the fights are easiest with the weapon-types I mentioned earlier.
And Melee in F2 is FAR from useless. You just need good resistances, and it is perfectly viable to beat the game with melee only. (And why not do it, when for a certain quest some 150% unarmed is required.)

And due to critical failures you miss a lot. And just to mention, the Luck score is involved in ALL random-roll in the game, so YES it DO effect your normal fail-rate.

I never fought in random encounters, and still reached level 24 every time in F1. Maybe you should have do the SIDEQUESTS too, not just the major quests, as those are what makes a the game really fun.
Also in F2 from the quests some level 24-32 (if my memory don't fail me) is achievable without using the exp-bug in NCR.

Finally I don't care in single walkthroughs. I usually grab all the avaiable ones, and that nets you with the right infos, as people tend to leave things out due to fail of memory or lazyness. That is especially true for F2.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally Posted by twillight

It is (especially in F1) viable even to not use weapons at all. So what? But the fights are easiest with the weapon-types I mentioned earlier.
And Melee in F2 is FAR from useless. You just need good resistances, and it is perfectly viable to beat the game with melee only. (And why not do it, when for a certain quest some 150% unarmed is required.)

And due to critical failures you miss a lot. And just to mention, the Luck score is involved in ALL random-roll in the game, so YES it DO effect your normal fail-rate.

I never fought in random encounters, and still reached level 24 every time in F1. Maybe you should have do the SIDEQUESTS too, not just the major quests, as those are what makes a the game really fun.
Also in F2 from the quests some level 24-32 (if my memory don't fail me) is achievable without using the exp-bug in NCR.

Finally I don't care in single walkthroughs. I usually grab all the avaiable ones, and that nets you with the right infos, as people tend to leave things out due to fail of memory or lazyness. That is especially true for F2.

It may be viable, but it's useless, nothing does as much damage as Unarmed and nothing causes the same criticals and crippling blows as Unarmed does in the Melee spectrum. It's useless, it's the only weapon skill that doesn't at least do something interestingly from the others enough to make it worth playing.

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.
It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Also Per's guide is the most comprehensive, I don't see why you'd slum around on guides with terrible information that most likely HAVE been stolen from Per's guide but whatever, the information in Per's guide is correct, the information is the most useful, and the guide is considered by the community to be the best. I don't see where there's a question here regarding which is objectively better since well, there isn't anything better than Per's guide when it comes to Fallout.

[wardencz]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

It may be viable, but it's useless, nothing does as much damage as Unarmed and nothing causes the same criticals and crippling blows as Unarmed does in the Melee spectrum. It's useless, it's the only weapon skill that doesn't at least do something interestingly from the others enough to make it worth playing.

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.
It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Also Per's guide is the most comprehensive, I don't see why you'd slum around on guides with terrible information that most likely HAVE been stolen from Per's guide but whatever, the information in Per's guide is correct, the information is the most useful, and the guide is considered by the community to be the best. I don't see where there's a question here regarding which is objectively better since well, there isn't anything better than Per's guide when it comes to Fallout.

In this case, I pretty much have to agree with Twillight, HtH combat isn't pointless and getting a perk Slayer/Sniper isn't a matter of grinding, I pretty much had it every single game I played it over.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally Posted by wardencz

In this case, I pretty much have to agree with Twillight, HtH combat isn't pointless and getting a perk Slayer/Sniper isn't a matter of grinding, I pretty much had it every single game I played it over.

There's no reasoning as to why you don't think Melee is pointless, I'm not talking about Unarmed, which is practically the same thing as Melee except Melee is entirely pointless since it's much worse than Unarmed, the only thing that makes it worthwhile is the Super Sledge and that's one item. Damage Resistances vary wildly for the differing weapon types (except for Power Armored foes which tend to soak up most Small Gun and Big Gun rounds) but for melee, which is entirely structured to the point that later on it's absolutely useless, whereas the high critical chance of improved Unarmed skill is devastating.
Also I already said that the level 24 perks that are in Fallout 1 as well as Fallout 2 are level 18 perks in Fallout 1. You aren't going to reach 24, there isn't enough net experience unless you go around slaughtering everything after finishing quests.

[Scatty]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

the only thing that makes it worthwhile is the Super Sledge and that's one item.

Also Lightsaber in Killap's Restoration Patch, which is even stronger than Super Sledge and does Plasma or Laser damage if I recall correctly. Can't be found until very late in the game, in San Francisco.
Why are you guys arguing about how one should play Fallout anyway? Just play everyone the way you like it and all are happy. This endless discussion is so pointless.

[twillight]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

Unarmed - It's useless, it's the only weapon skill that doesn't at least do something interestingly from the others enough to make it worth playing.

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.

It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Also Per's guide is the most comprehensive, I don't see why you'd slum around on guides with terrible information that most likely HAVE been stolen from Per's guide but whatever, the information in Per's guide is correct, the information is the most useful, and the guide is considered by the community to be the best. I don't see where there's a question here regarding which is objectively better since well, there isn't anything better than Per's guide when it comes to Fallout.

1) "Not interresting" doesn't mean it is "not useful".

2) When you have low luck, you'll miss on a hugh percentage. I wouldn't call that negligable.

3) It is POSSIBLE, to reach level 24 in F1, and much higher in F2. You should do all quests next time. You and others being lazy doesn't mean it is not there. I every time reach level 24 in F1 (I think there is an exp limit on that), and level 99 in F2 (and for the first time, when I didn't abused the bug and din't know about all the hidden things I ended up level 26-28 without doing fighting random encounters).

4) As I said Per's guide might be correct on what he says, but he says not everything.

[The one who flew]

The best F2 character looks something like this:

ST 5
PE 8
EN 2
CH 6
IN 8
AG 10
LK 8

Gifted
Fast shot

Small guns
Speech
Lockpick

The best gun is Gauss Pistol. With 12 AP (2xAction boy) you do six shots, all critical of course with Sniper and LK 10, knocking down or insta-killing 6 enemies per turn. Fighting lots of enemies such as in the enclave or military base is easy, you don't get shot at much as you keep knocking them all down.

I made a Fast shot character specifically to use big guns and ended up using the Gauss Pistol with my non-tagged small guns skill because 6 single shots with that were just much more effective than 3 bursts with vindicator or anything.

You can take a perk of Lifegiver if the low EN bothers you, 2 points of EN gives you 1 hp/lvl, lifegiver gives you 4 hp/lvl so you get that back quite fast.

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.
It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

This is so wrong... Fallout 2 is much bigger than Fallout and you'll get a much higher level. You mention Per's guide, well if you make a gifted charismatic team player like suggested and do every quest in the game you're sure to end up somewhere around lvl 27 at least.

My go-everywhere-do-everything playthrough of killap's latest RP ended up with lvl 32 I believe, with zero grinding random encounters for stuff. Sure I fought random encounters when they came but didn't walk around the wilderness to get guns to sell or anything. Sure the RP adds the EPA and a couple of quests here and there but I doubt that they account for 10 lvls worth of xp.

Maybe in the first game you need to grind a bit to get slayer or sniper, or you get them so late in the game that you don't benefit from them for the majority of time playing the game.

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

4) As I said Per's guide might be correct on what he says, but he says not everything.

I disagree. It has pretty much everything.