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[kad3t]

Originally Posted by El Quia

(...)
The Sleep spell was always a great low level spell for low level characters. Its usefulness quickly fades away, though, because it can't affect anything with more than 4+3 hd. But meanwhile, those it can affect (any non-undead humanoid with less than 4+3 hd) are affected without any right to saving throw... although magic resistance still applies.. (...)

Well, I can only have one of these at the time for whatever the reason anyway, so it's not a biggie. ^__^

Originally Posted by El Quia

(...)
And white mages aren't useless, it just that they start to be really useful starting at level 5, when they acquire fireball

Aah... Well, let me wait for the level 5 then & we'll see what she's (my mage) cut out of...

Originally Posted by El Quia

And no, I don't think it's the race fault that your half-elven knight dies often. In fact, IIRC, in Krynn the half-elf receive a very nice bonus to dexterity, which adds to its armor class. Maybe you just had bad luck, either with enemies' attack roll or his hit points rolls?

Probably with both. LOL! ^__^ Anyway, it's a bit late to make any changes to the team now, isn't it? Or maybe I should make them whilst it's not to late yet? I don't know, I guess I keep playing with the party I got now & we'll see if I made bad or very bad choices whilst creating them. ^__^

I've reinstalled my Windows & Linux today, so it will take me a day or so to install all the software I use & configure it, but then I'll get back to CoK. Ow, it doesn't take me that long because it's difficult or it's so much of it, it's just the lack of time that's the cause of delay... ^__^

Originally Posted by El Quia

I don't think making your only cleric a multiclass is really wise... that means he will have to divide his experience between all his classes, making him lower level than his companions... and you need all the cure X wounds spells you can get... (...)

I kind of learned that I could use another cleric the hard way. ^__^

Originally Posted by El Quia

The hold person is a nice spell, yes, except that it doesn't work on critters not considered "person" Also, you have to take into account that, while you can target as much as 4 people with it, the less you target the harder is the saving throw. Again, elves and (to a lesser degree) half elves are resistant to this (as it is a charm-like spell), and other critters can have magic resistance. But, without taking that into account, the thing is that targetting 3 or 4 people let's them have a normal saving throw against paralization (remember, clerics have a better saving throw against this than other classes), 2 targets impose a -1 to the saving throw and 1 target is a -3 IIRC. That that into account. Also, silence is GREAT against spellcasters Also, don't forget the Pray spell when you gain access to level 3 spells.

So, what I've understood from that is that the less people I target with Hold person the higher chances I've got to succeed?

Originally Posted by El Quia

And I think that's it. Personally, I don't like making a full thief in these games, seeing as the strong point of this class doesn't merit a full class. Usually I make three warrior-class characters to be on the front line, a cleric in the 4th position, a mage in the 5th (so he is in the middle of the back row) and a cleric/thief (or mage/thief, depending on my mood) on the 6th. (...)

I had a similar idea. Well, I wanted three fighting characters, a mage, a cleric and a thief. I just didn't realise that I'm hardly going to use any of thief's skills. That is judging by what I've encountered in the game so far. Not once have I used him in any special way.

Originally Posted by El Quia

Also, IIRC, elves doesn't make great clerics seeing as their race limits its cleric level to 12 (or was it 9?). But I can't remember if these games used the race limit to class levels...

You seem to be very knowledgeble in terms of CoK and the rules it's World goes by. Thank you for your hints! They sure will not be ignored & even though I am already playing and don't feel like restarting I'll try to keep them in mind and apply where appropriate. ^__^

Thanks again!

[hunvagy]

Of course he is, he is an expert in AD&D and Dragonlance is a campaign setting for that system

Anyway I threw together a party last night and played some CoK. To me it seemed easier then PoR I have a human warrior, a mountain dwarf warrior, a human female knight, a half-elven mishakal cleric, a qualinesti white mage and a kender kiri-jolith cleric/thief. Though I had some mishaps (mostly ill cast sleep spells hitting my own characters) They all survived I'm currently back at the outpost after freeing Caramon and am eager to go back to Thotl. but first I need 1 xp for that pesky warrior.. he passed out in the last encounter after being clubbed almost to death by a hill giant And to think I went out to get some XP for him Oh yeah I leanred Stinking Cloud with my mage, I remember it can do wonders where Sleep fails

Oh and the Fix command in encamp is pretty neat I wonder why I never noticed it earlier. Anyway if you use fix, you never ever get in a random encounter why resting Just don't forget that Fix does not re-memorize spells you used up in a fight, only those the computer uses when issuing the fix command.

[kad3t]

Originally Posted by hunvagy

Of course he is, he is an expert in AD&D and Dragonlance is a campaign setting for that system

Well, definitely he seemed to know much more about AD&D than I ever could. I mean I played cRPGs all my life since I had my first PC, but the key letter here is "c" & I never bothered with getting in depth with any particular system rules I just played the games. As it's clearly pointed out here, knowing the rules by which the systems go by are a big help also. ^__^

Originally Posted by hunvagy

Anyway I threw together a party last night and played some CoK. To me it seemed easier then PoR

See... That's how I felt. But it's probably cause you sort of have a clear understanding where you need to go next in CoK whilst in PoR you can go to places that will be way to difficult for you party. That's how I felt when I tried it last, though like I mentioned few posts before last time I approached PoR I got butchered in my first encounter. ^__^

Originally Posted by hunvagy

I have a human warrior, a mountain dwarf warrior, a human female knight, a half-elven mishakal cleric, a qualinesti white mage and a kender kiri-jolith cleric/thief.

I know that I should but I just can't make myself to play dwarfs and other different to human or elf races. You could say, I suppose, that in RPG games I'm racist. ^__^ Though not that I don't interact with other races I just don't play them in my parties, I always stick with human, half-elves & elves only. Weird...

Originally Posted by hunvagy

Though I had some mishaps (mostly ill cast sleep spells hitting my own characters) They all survived I'm currently back at the outpost after freeing Caramon and am eager to go back to Thotl. but first I need 1 xp for that pesky warrior.. he passed out in the last encounter after being clubbed almost to death by a hill giant And to think I went out to get some XP for him Oh yeah I leanred Stinking Cloud with my mage, I remember it can do wonders where Sleep fails

Is Thotl that first dungeon? If yes, then I've got most of it uncovered already. I've freed up that dude that was chained also but I seem to need to uncover it all before the commander or whoever he is in the starting city accepts my mission as completed...

Originally Posted by hunvagy

Oh and the Fix command in encamp is pretty neat I wonder why I never noticed it earlier. Anyway if you use fix, you never ever get in a random encounter why resting Just don't forget that Fix does not re-memorize spells you used up in a fight, only those the computer uses when issuing the fix command.

Yeah, I use fix all the time. Especially in the dungeons where it's not to safe to camp properly. However my cleric memorizes all the spells when I use it, it's just the mage that don't seem to be able to do that... Bug?

[El Quia]

Originally Posted by kad3t

I had a similar idea. Well, I wanted three fighting characters, a mage, a cleric and a thief. I just didn't realise that I'm hardly going to use any of thief's skills. That is judging by what I've encountered in the game so far. Not once have I used him in any special way.

The only way I remember using the thief in this game is for picking locks (instead of bashing it open or casting a knock spell -which is a crime to spent a stinking cloud slot just to open a door -)-, and for backstabbing. Can't remember if the thief deactivated traps in the game...

As for backstabbing, it can be useful. Backstabbing is a skill which gives a big attack bonus, plus a level-dependent damage multiplier to melee attacks you do with your thief under certain conditions. What conditions are those? Attacking in the diametrical opposite way of another party member in the same round. as in the following example:

              K  T1
                D
              F  T2

K = Knight
F = Fighter
T1 = Thief 1
T2 = Thief 2
D = Draconian!

If the first thief attack after the fighter has attacked in the same round, the thief does a backstab. The same with the knight and the second thief. Also, if between the fighter attack and the first thief attack the draconian attacked you, I think you lose the backstab benefit, but I am not really sure. Remember that for this to work, the creature must have been distracted by the other party member in the same round as the thief attack. For this situations is that the wait command is useful

Then again, is not THAT useful the backstab, don't risk your tactics for that. But if you have the chance, go for the backstab!

Originally Posted by kad3t

Thanks again!

You are welcome!

[kmonster]

In the gold box games you can only backstab a target if you attack opposite to the first attack at the target in that round and the target didn't act in the meantime.

When you attacked a target and the game displays "attacks ... from behind" you were in backstab position. Non-thieves don't get a backstab multiplier, but they still get the bonus to hit.
Backstabbing isn't really needed versus hobgoblins or other low level monsters which die from a normal hit, but it's the best way to beat high level enemies in physical combat. In DkoK my enlarged thief could backstab the end boss for over 100 damage with a single attack.

[kad3t]

Originally Posted by El Quia

The only way I remember using the thief in this game is for picking locks (instead of bashing it open or casting a knock spell -which is a crime to spent a stinking cloud slot just to open a door -)-, and for backstabbing. Can't remember if the thief deactivated traps in the game...

Ow, that's OK then, as I've been bashing the doors open like crazy.

Originally Posted by El Quia

As for backstabbing, it can be useful. Backstabbing is a skill which gives a big attack bonus, plus a level-dependent damage multiplier to melee attacks you do with your thief under certain conditions.

See, the thing is I'm mostly attacked by huge (and I mean HUGE) gropus of critters that stand exactly opposite my party, so backstabbing could be useful if at all only at the last bits of each combat, when enemy count's heavily down. And by then I don't really need to use it anymore. My thief, however is quite proficient with a bow though. ^__^

What conditions are those? Attacking in the diametrical opposite way of another party member in the same round. as in the following example:

Originally Posted by El Quia

(...)
Then again, is not THAT useful the backstab, don't risk your tactics for that. But if you have the chance, go for the backstab!

I will. I mean if I ever run out of arrows or are in near-death situation I might but for now I'd rather see him fighting from a far with his bow and arrows. Especially that it's my first CoK play & I already made loads of bad choices reagrdins races/profesions. ^__^

Thanks.

[kad3t]

Originally Posted by kmonster

(...)
Backstabbing isn't really needed versus hobgoblins or other low level monsters which die from a normal hit, but it's the best way to beat high level enemies in physical combat. In DkoK my enlarged thief could backstab the end boss for over 100 damage with a single attack.

That's kind of interesting... I mean, does enlarging give a character endurance & strength boost also?

[kmonster]

Enlarge increases only strength to a value which depends on the caster level. It lasts very long.

[hunvagy]

Well, I've slayed the two white dragons yesterday evening, and went back to the outpost to recuperate and prepare for the next part of the journey And I haven't used the wand of ice storm, so I fathom it'll come in handy later
What I don't understand is why they didn't include the identify spell.. this makes it really hard to use the magic stuff.. you have to walk back to the outpost, ID it, then walk back to the dungeon...
Anyway I still know why I loved these games, and why they can still capture ones imagination

[CatherineMcClarey]

Originally Posted by hunvagy

Well, I've slayed the two white dragons yesterday evening, and went back to the outpost to recuperate and prepare for the next part of the journey And I haven't used the wand of ice storm, so I fathom it'll come in handy later
What I don't understand is why they didn't include the identify spell.. this makes it really hard to use the magic stuff.. you have to walk back to the outpost, ID it, then walk back to the dungeon...
Anyway I still know why I loved these games, and why they can still capture ones imagination

I think by "identify" you mean the detect magic spell -- which I'm pretty sure is available to both clerics & mages in the Dragonlance "Gold Box" games. (It's been a few weeks since I completed Dark Queen of Krynn & restarted Pool of Radiance, so I may be a bit fuzzy on differences between the Forgotten Realms "Gold Box" titles vs. the Dragonlance "Gold Box" titles, but you should have detect magic available; just have your cleric memorize it (instead of 1 of his/her other spells) the next time your party finds a safe place to rest.)