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[blastradius14]

*Points to worship thread* Hmmm. A soul? So why is it that all of god's children have souls and believe blah blah blah? I think if you are going to be a christian later in life that is when you are bestowed with a soul. Sure, I was raised that way; but I don't believe in souls, much less god.

This is why atheistic people should run the courts, the abortion clinics and the electoral college LOL
None of this brainless has a soul nonsense.

[Himmler]

i don't have a soul..yet i am not aborted..so if i'm a soul i should be aborted :eeeeeh: good luck guys!

[allyfaucet]

Originally posted by blastradius14@Sep 8 2005, 01:32 AM
This is why atheistic people should run the courts, the abortion clinics and the electoral college LOL
None of this brainless has a soul nonsense.

But if the athiests ran the electoral college, most of them would want to abolish it, and we don't want that, do we?


I have a question for everyone, then. We've heard some points of view on this abortion deal but...
Is a fetus a life? At what point do you determine that a "potential baby" is a life? When the heart begins beating? When it is born? Or somewhere in some of the trimesters?


Also, here in the US (I don't know about everywhere else) they allow abortions up to the end of the 2nd trimester. Is that too long or not long enough?

[ReamusLQ]

Originally posted by allyfaucet+Sep 7 2005, 07:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (allyfaucet @ Sep 7 2005, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-blastradius14@Sep 8 2005, 01:32 AM
This is why atheistic people should run the courts, the abortion clinics and the electoral college LOL
None of this brainless has a soul nonsense.

But if the athiests ran the electoral college, most of them would want to abolish it, and we don't want that, do we?


I have a question for everyone, then. We've heard some points of view on this abortion deal but...
Is a fetus a life? At what point do you determine that a "potential baby" is a life? When the heart begins beating? When it is born? Or somewhere in some of the trimesters?


Also, here in the US (I don't know about everywhere else) they allow abortions up to the end of the 2nd trimester. Is that too long or not long enough? [/b][/quote]
By legal definition, I believe a fetus is not considered human until it takes it's first breath.

I think the second trimester is too late, because if you look at pictures, that's an actual person by then!

[eolsunder]

Well the reason that the topic is so debated is that there are good arguments on both sides, otherwise everyone would mostly be on one side. But its usually a 50/50 split.


Now saying that.

Wether Abortions are legal or not legal, Abortions WILL happen. They happened before they were legalized, and will happen if they are ever illegalized again. Same with drugs, no matter how "illegal" you make them, people who want them will get them.

Abortions will happen no matter what. There will be women who have complications and need abortions for safetly/health reasons. There will be women who are raped who shouldn't be expected to carry a baby from their rapist. There are women who are just plain scared and might not be the prime candidates for becomming mothers (due to age, size, health, lifestyle).

What we have to figure out is wether its "ok" or "just" for someone who gets abortions for strictly selfish reasons. Im going to have a baby, but I just don't want to put up with the hassle. Im going to have a baby, but I can't have that because I won't get dates anymore. I don't want to put the effort into raising a kid. It will make me look fat. I didn't mean for it to happen. These type of people consider their OWN personal goals first, and think of their child-to-be as more of annoyances than living creatures. Just like that skin tag or wart that needs to be removed for cosmetic reasons. Who cares what the skin tag feels.

Me, Personally I think abortions are a disgusting practice and take freedom of choice to a dangerous level. BUT, I have to agree that sometimes they are needed. Should they be legalized? Well, considering that probably 50% of the population is for them, then that gives a HUGE argument that they should be legalized. It would be totally different if only 1 in 100 people wanted abortions or thought they were ok, but thats not the case.

I also agree with the other poster. They are legal, and due to the views of the population they will stay that way. What we need to do is work on trying to stop women from getting pregnant in the first place, thus lessening the need for abortions.

[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by eolsunder@Sep 8 2005, 04:36 AM
What we have to figure out is wether its "ok" or "just" for someone who gets abortions for strictly selfish reasons. Im going to have a baby, but I just don't want to put up with the hassle. Im going to have a baby, but I can't have that because I won't get dates anymore. I don't want to put the effort into raising a kid. It will make me look fat. I didn't mean for it to happen. These type of people consider their OWN personal goals first, and think of their child-to-be as more of annoyances than living creatures. Just like that skin tag or wart that needs to be removed for cosmetic reasons. Who cares what the skin tag feels.

When talking of selfish reasons like that, keep in mind, though, what somebody (Reamus, I think) already pointed out towards the beginning of the thread: abortion is a major surgery. Anti-abortion arguments often make it sound as if women were having abortions just for fun and taking it all very lightly. It's actually both a physical and a psychological strain, so a woman who has an abortion just because she doesn't want to become fat or miss out on dates is probably in for a nasty surprise. Really, most people who want to have abortions do have their reasons for it, and are often desperate enough already, so I don't see why they should be made even more desperate by being told "You are bloody well going to have that child no matter what it does to your life". If you do that, you're effectively using the child as a means of punishing the parent (or, more specifically, the mother, since the father won't actually have to quit his job or school to have the child). Surely that's not the right way to think of a living creature either?

[gregor]

Originally posted by Blood-Pigggy@Sep 8 2005, 12:51 AM
It's more of a Christian belief that it's wrong to abort.
Actually any religion that believes in souls.

Even though it's barely developed, the soul is already there, and it's killing a human being.

No, muslim religion (they have souls too) allows abortions if foetus would harm the mother (ie during complications).

[laiocfar]

What we have to figure out is wether its "ok" or "just" for someone who gets abortions for strictly selfish reasons. Im going to have a baby, but I just don't want to put up with the hassle. Im going to have a baby, but I can't have that because I won't get dates anymore. I don't want to put the effort into raising a kid. It will make me look fat. I didn't mean for it to happen. These type of people consider their OWN personal goals first, and think of their child-to-be as more of annoyances than living creatures. Just like that skin tag or wart that needs to be removed for cosmetic reasons. Who cares what the skin tag feels.

Is very clear that you never got a baby..... isn´t so easy to abort. Nobody will abort for these reasons. No anwser to so simply and false argument.


If abortion is legalised, safer abortion conditions will save many women´s lifes. I prefer to save women´s lifes, to save souls.
Anyway, the life, the ilegal abortion, the dead of women by ilegal abortion is true and was true ever. In 500, the women haven´t soul. In 1500, the black people haven´t soul. Today, still someones belive in soul.
I found that at least in Argentina, the great problem to make legal abortion, are the christian´s church and organisations. Because the belive that the baby is the punishment for the sin of sex. So they are agaisnt abortion and agaisnt safe sex. You will find, for example, that the Christians Medics Organization has said that the sperm are so small that will allways cross the condom. :eeeeeh:
And why these people who can´t have sex (cures, vatican, etc.) will decide about babies???

[Sebatianos]

OK - some more thoughts:

I guess those who know me also know that I'm an ATHEIST, so the reasons I give are not religion-based nor church-influenced.

I think EOLSUNDER said it nicely - there are arguments for both sides and we should work on the way of reducing pregnency!
And that would be a major change in the society!!!
As long as there are tons of sexual images that bombard children and adolsecent youth in their most vounerable age - there will be a problem.
The thing is, that mostly comertails are to blame! Every comertial is actually trying to brainwash you - so you'd buy a certain product. But they also have the effect of making the society think in a certain way.
A clear example here in Slovenia is a cometrial for TUNA. A few years back (and I'm not even sure why) the majoity of people in Slovena didn't even know what tuna-fish tastes like. Now there are people that are afraid they'd get heart sickness if they don't eat at least one can per week.
It's crazy, but it's true - and it is starting to effect at least a part of society.

Now imagine what all the side effects of a sexy girl saducing a sexy guy in a comertial for a normal car.
This gives you a certain image of what beautiful youngsters should look like and how to behave.
So you have an image of how you should look like in order to be successful. Also it tells you that the normal behaviour of people would have to be at least flirting - if not suduction.
This would increase such behaviour - and that would increase the amount of sexual arousment among such a group of people.
That would also increse the sexual frustration and would increase the chances of young people having sex.
And of course more people have sex (even if it is safe) - the more people will get pregnent.
So pregnency is also a side effect of "SEX SELLS" way of thinking.

I know this isn't about abortion directly - but it's about not even needing an abortion - not getting pregnent in the first place!

[blastradius14]

Yeah, there are better reasons to remove warts and skin tags. They can be CANCEROUS. This is a much better reason to get an abortion; if you are stupid and have given yourself lung cancer or have slept around and aquired aids, just spare the poor creature and adopt a child (if you want one to begin with). No sense allowing the child to die because you were stupid/were unlucky (genetics carry sometimes and skip generations).