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[Sebatianos]

A republican right?

Seems to me you put way too much trust in the spirit of the free market (especially since there's no such thing).

[chumloofah]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("sebatianos")</div>

A republican right?

Seems to me you put way too much trust in the spirit of the free market (especially since there's no such thing).[/b]

So true
Oh, and based on the acknowledged fact that there's more than enough food being grown right now, famine would be a problem with the market forces that control distribution rather than distribution as a concept.

[Japo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chumloofah @ Oct 13 2007, 12:34 PM) [snapback]315956[/snapback]</div>

Oh, and based on the acknowledged fact that there's more than enough food being grown right now, famine would be a problem with the market forces that control distribution rather than distribution as a concept.[/b]

Good sophism, but. Where does famine exist, in countries with market-oriented economy? Like North Korea and Zimbabwe (1st African crops exporter before the land nationalization), right?

A republican right?[/b]

Let's lynch him!!! I'll bring the implements.
:bleh:

[Tulac]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Japofran @ Oct 13 2007, 01:26 PM) [snapback]315962[/snapback]</div>

Where does famine exist, in countries with market-oriented economy?

[/b]

Ethiophia, Sudan, Bangladesh etc. \o/

[chumloofah]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Japofran")</div>

Good sophism, but. Where does famine exist, in countries with market-oriented economy? Like North Korea and Zimbabwe (1st African crops exporter before the land nationalization), right?
[/b]

The markets use some countries for supply, others for distribution and ignores a rare few.
The ones that have enough wealth to be worth distributing to are fine.
The ethereal market forces control almost food in the world.
It stands to reason that famine exists because the market can't be trusted to do what's best, only what's most profitable.

[Japo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tulac @ Oct 14 2007, 12:08 AM) [snapback]316000[/snapback]</div>

Ethiophia, Sudan, Bangladesh etc. \o/[/b]

You mean those countries are market-oriented in your opinion, or the other way around? All are members of the non-aligned movement (just like North Korea and Zimbabwe), etc.

[Sebatianos]

So? Croatia is a country that's a part of the non-alignment movement as well, but it's very market oriented...

[Tulac]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Japofran @ Oct 14 2007, 02:09 AM) [snapback]316007[/snapback]</div>

You mean those countries are market-oriented in your opinion, or the other way around? All are members of the non-aligned movement (just like North Korea and Zimbabwe), etc.
[/b]

Are they communist, socialist? No.

Besides chumloofah said it well, market economy doesn't decide what's good for us but what's most profitable.
For instance some countries with famine export their food because it's more profitable than to sell it to the domestic market which has lower standard. The same is with oil in Nigeria and there are plenty of other examples of market oriented economies not functioning. Free market died in the 20th century and with a good reason it did.

[Japo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tulac @ Oct 14 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]316110[/snapback]</div>

Are they communist, socialist? No.[/b]

You should inform yourself better:

After the 1974 revolution, the economy of Ethiopia was run as Command economy [link to "Socialist ecnonomics" in the original text]. Stronger state controls were implemented, and a large part of the economy was transferred to the public sector, including all agricultural land and urban rental property, and all financial institutions. [...] Together with a flawed relocation project and the Red Terror [emphasis added --Japo] around 1,500,000 Ethiopians were killed under Mengistu Haile Mariam. [...] Since then, many economic reforms have been carried out. From mid-1991 onwards, the economy has evolved toward a decentralized, market-oriented economy, emphasizing individual initiative, which was intended to reverse a decade of economic decline. In 1993 , gradual privatization of business, industry, banking, agriculture, trade, and commerce was underway.

Nevertheless, Ethiopia is still only partially privatized. Many government owned properties during the previous regime have now been transferred to pro-government enterprises in the name of privatization. Furthermore, the Ethiopian constitution defines the right to own land as belonging only to "the state and the people," but citizens may only lease land (up to 99 years), and are unable to mortgage, sell, or own it.[/b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia#Economy

Under Ethiopia's land tenure system, the government owns all land and provides long-term leases to the tenants; the system continues to hamper growth in the industrial sector as entrepreneurs are unable to use land as collateral for loans.[/b]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...os/et.html#Econ

[chumloofah]

Nobody said the free market wasn't good for business, Japofran.
It's got it's uses, but letting business do whatever business wants may not be the best way to make the world a better place.