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[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by xcom freak@Apr 4 2005, 04:42 PM
true except for the parts making me look like a complete moron.

he is not helping the AIDS situation in AFrica but he isnt THE cause of it, he isnt responsible of it.
Maybe some people caught it becoz they thought that the condom was the devil but this minor detail cant be a major factor.

If people are truly religious they would folow his other sayings that lower AIDS. But as u said hypocrisy...it does feel better without a condom... so i am concluding that he hasnt done anything to help things out but he isnt to blame.

edit oops

Those "explanations" are just subjective opinions.

And I never said he was the CAUSE of AIDS in africa. But he's pretty well to blame for those countless africans who died because they didn't use condoms because he said so. Period.

If people are truly religious they would folow his other sayings that lower AIDS

Read again what I wrote about so called christians and the bible, THEN show me ONE single person who's "truly religious"...

[xcom freak]

read my post again i took what u said in consideration and discussed about the hypocrisy part...

[Stroggy]

People, can we please cease this bickering.
if you didn't like the pope please choose somewhere else to voice your opinion, but please don't let this thread fall into pointless flaming.
It won't help anything.

If you already feel this strongly about the pope, think how I felt when Yassin was hailed as a spiritual leader and nice old guy by the media after his liquidation. Or when not a word was mentioned by the media about Arafat's terrorist activities against civilians across the world when he died and was merely called a "disputed figure" or "controversial leader"

[Yobor]

I think bickering about this disgraces the Pope's memory.

[xcom freak]

Let s turn this topic into last hommage to Jean Paul II only praises.
if somebody has a problem with this he could open another thread without compromising this one.

[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by Yobor@Apr 4 2005, 04:51 PM
I think bickering about this disgraces the Pope's memory.

That's just what I meant...

But hell, it's allright, no use talking to the deaf. Keep on scoring points for the afterlife, hypocrites (whoever feels like it may take this personally...)

Maybe bickering about the Holocaust and WWII discraces the good things Hitler did for the german economy as well then...

@ xcom-freak: Don't worry, I DID that...

[Sebatianos]

Perhibited the use of condomes in Africa... so he killed tousends...

I'll use the words of a man burend by the church to reply to that - Sancta simplicitae.
Jan Hus said that when they tied him to a pole and an old woman brought some more firewood to the pile, so he could burn better - the woman was convinced she was pleasing the god by helping to burn a man, who was supposed to be a heretic (he only tried to do what Martin Luther did a few centuries later). So he said to himself: Sancty Simplicitae (it could be translated - blessed be the weak in the head).

and I say that to you if you believe that the pope killed people in Africa because he forbade the use of condoms.

1 - The church porhibits having sex with anyone else but the spouse (people in Africa don't obey that).
2 - The church is against any kind of contraception (people in Africa obey that).

The resoult - sexual desises are spreading.

The church is just an excuse:
-If they'd really obey the church they wouldn't even have sex - so sexual desise couldn't spread.
-If they disobey the church in that - much more importaint point - they wouldn't have any moral dilem with using condomes either.
-But they have to pay for condomes. If they bought condomes people would know what they are about to do so they might be ashamed to buy them (sex is stil an intimate thing and you don't start showing off before you do it). And last but not least - condomes lessen the pleasure of sex.

So please stop using this argument - it's just plain silly!

Now as for the pope - he was a great man. There weren't that many (and he is without a doubt the most importaint man who died in the 21st century).
You don't have to feel anything for him, but at least think of this:
It's common curtesy that if you have nothing nice to say - you should say nothing at all.
(I know this doesn't emply always, but why would someone constantly try to say that he doesn't care about something??? If I don't care about something I don't even read that post.)

[Chuck the plant]

@ sebastianos: Again, show me ONE person who does EVERYTHING that's required from a "true believer" according to the bible. Just one. THAN I'll agree that this arguement is silly. But only then.

And again: The difference between the old woman and the pope? The old woman didn't know it any better. The pope claims to know it ALL.

And I DO have something to say. You just don't wanna acknowledge it. But that's a different thing. Or where did I say I don't CARE about that whole thing? In fact I DO care. Just not the way YOU would want me to.

[Sebatianos]

Well Chuck - my reaply wasn't just to you. You do have things to say (some other people don't - comments like: I don't know why it's still in the news...).

And now we just got to the part why I respect Karol Woityla so much! The first sentance he said to the public as the pope was: Correct me if I'm wrong!
This are not the words of a man who claims to know it all (that was claimed back in 1870 - when they proclaimed that the pope can not make a mistake).
It was John Paul II who finally apologized and addmited the church made many wrongs. He apologized for the crusades and for the mistreatment of Gallileo Gallilei (so the pope finally addmited the world is round and that it turns). This pope also tried to unite all the believers (regarthless of the religion - he organized a prayer of all religions in cluding muslim, jew, budhist - not just different braches of christianity). He was a fighter for peace - was agains any kind of war (Soviet attack on Afganistan, American attack on Afganistan, Sadams attack on Kuwait, American attack on Iraq, the war between Iraq and Iran, the war in Ex-Yugoslavia,...). So there is no doubt he was a great man!

And for the believers that do what they are supposed to do... Why is it always that they obey the church in things that are easy (not to put a condome on) and disobey it in the things that are difficoult (do not have sex unless you are married to that person)? That's just using religion as an excuse! Do you know how many people there are around the world that are chatolic and still use condomes? And do you know how many people aren't but they don't?

Chuck - you can't blame the church for that (and that comes from me - who are blaming the church for many other things - just read some older topics like religion).

[xcom freak]

Plz dont forget the lebanese civil war he contributed in a pact that is still respected nowadays. It implores christian/muslim cohabitation and really helped out in ending the civil war. PLz dont debate me on this i lived there all my life .