«

[MasterGrazzt]

Hi.

Anyway, see this page: http://members.aon.at/hacki-ultima/e...itpicks_u9.htm for why Ultima 9 was one of, if not the worst game ever. Yes, even worse than Atari ET. In short though, it rots because it was made by a team that had no knowledge of the prior games except bits and pieces of Ultima 8 and besides the graphics developers, was formed of the dregs of people thrown out of other teams. EA (who bought Origin) made it simply to kill single player Ultima and move on with their online nonsense.

Martian Dreams, along with the rest of the Ultima series, is simply incredible. A steampunk tale worthy of Jules Verne and H.G. Wells.

xoopx, I don't know you, but stick with this game. You'll like it.

By the way, I have a problem. The door in the power plant is closed and I just can't get it open... I suppose I have to go through the mine complex to get to the plant, huh? Always the hard way.

[Borodin]

In short though, it rots because it was made by a team that had no knowledge of the prior games except bits and pieces of Ultima 8 and besides the graphics developers, was formed of the dregs of people thrown out of other teams.

Garriott claimed both before and during its development that he had a firm hand on the team. I know for a fact that he fired the development team once, because he didn't like their results. They weren't the dregs. They were hand-picked, I'm afraid.

EA (who bought Origin) made it simply to kill single player Ultima and move on with their online nonsense.

You don't spend a fortune on a single-player game in a series to kill that series; you just move on. It's been done before. Garriott's vision decided that Ultima IX would be action-based and employ an entirely new engine with all sorts of special effects. He pushed the envelope technically to the point that the game was nowhere near finished on that level when it was released (EA pulled the funding plug), and left almost no time for such "incidentals" (emphasis on sarcasm) as enemy AI, non-linearity, etc. Don't get me wrong: it was a horrific mess, and one of the worst games I've ever played or reviewed. But it wasn't EA's fault. Garriott blamed Ultima VIII on them, but he took full credit for Ascension. And I'm inclined to think he deserved quite a bit of it for the results.

By the way, on a related note: I once asked Garriott after Ultima VI took so long--he explained it was because he was now working with a large team, instead of by himself--whether he'd ever considered using Project Management software. He just glared at me and said, "No." Being sure of yourself is well and good, and but it's better to have a good team to tell you you're not god.

[MasterGrazzt]

Thanks for setting me straight, Borodin. It's a shame what happened to the once great Lord British. Got a bit of a swelled head. Ah well, we still have U4-Serpent Isle.

I wish Worlds of Ultima would have gone on. It would have been interesting to see where the Avatar went next.

[Borodin]

Originally posted by MasterGrazzt@Jan 5 2005, 01:30 AM
Thanks for setting me straight, Borodin. It's a shame what happened to the once great Lord British. Got a bit of a swelled head. Ah well, we still have U4-Serpent Isle.

I wish Worlds of Ultima would have gone on. It would have been interesting to see where the Avatar went next.

I completely agree. Ultima VIIa and b and their Worlds of Ultima spinoffs were remarkable games, and remain among my favorite RPGs of all time. At least some of the credit should go to Warren Spector, who produced the latter, and who had high hopes for the series. When it didn't bring in the immediately expected results however, Garriott used that as a club to beat the idea of RPGs to death, let a lot of people go, and refocused on action titles. Some excellent talent got its start at Origin Systems in the 1980s and early 1990s, but nearly all of it left as soon as it ran headfirst into the creative vision of the Chief.

[MasterGrazzt]

Worlds of Ultima was actually a spinoff series from Ultima 6. :bleh:

But yeah, I often use Ultima 7, both parts, to show people who think all computer RPGs are dungeon crawls that they're wrong.

We could spend posts just going on about the virtues (heh) of Ultima.

[Borodin]

Originally posted by MasterGrazzt@Jan 5 2005, 03:17 AM
Worlds of Ultima was actually a spinoff series from Ultima 6.* :bleh:

But yeah, I often use Ultima 7, both parts, to show people who think all computer RPGs are dungeon crawls that they're wrong.

We could spend posts just going on about the virtues (heh) of Ultima.

Worlds of Ultima was actually a spinoff series from Ultima 6. :bleh:

Not quite. It was developed between Ultima VI and VII, and is very much a hybrid of the two titles. The graphics owe more to Ultima VI, but the complexity of the dialog, characterization, and storyline is straight out of Ultima VII. I'm still a bit amazed at what the Origin folks achieved in Martian Dreams, with the "subconscious" and conscious personalities of various celebrated figures (Samuel Clemens, Lenin, etc).

But yeah, I often use Ultima 7, both parts, to show people who think all computer RPGs are dungeon crawls that they're wrong.

We could spend posts just going on about the virtues (heh) of Ultima.

And why shouldn't we? I've been pointing out to teens on GameBanshee who have just been exposed to Fable that no, RPGs are *not* supposed to contain 15 hours of gameplay and that no, RPGs don't automatically get boring if they last longer than that. People who are only familiar with the repetitive gameplay of KotoR can also find a lot to enjoy in the Ultima titles between the last tiled games and Ultima VIII: Triumph of Non-Stop Action.

Martian dream and Savage empire are perhapes the BEST of the Ultima series, built upon the Ultima 6 engine but more refined, less clutter. Also they are a good escape from the world of Brtiannia where most new players have no clues of the geography and 'local' custom. Funny thing is the Ultima world that Ultima 7 and certainly ultima 8 killed continued on Ultima Online. Guess they finally realised that cool graphics and action is not so important as stable engine, good interface and good plot. Speaking of PLOT, martian dream and Savage empire have one of the best and imaginative plots I have ever seen, its almost worth it to just read the game and not play it, witht he martian dream world, famous characters, and the underground city and ant people complex in savage empire, and the T-rex, the space cannon, the mines of martian dream, I use to love the maps that came with it and studied it for hours just to explore the landscape, take the barge on a ride.......

I really really want to replay it but I know if i start it would be 4 days before I would finish and the amount of time just scares me. Again, a must keep, archive it and show it to damn people are EA and Rock Star that great game is not about 3D engines, atleast the Japs tries to put a plot into their games.

W

Borodin,

Why are you giving LB such a hard time? British is a hero for his gaming works and you know it. Okay, U8 and 9 sucked, of course, but UO is the best MMORPG there has ever been. I can't believe you were so unpleasant to him.

Thou hast lost at least three eighths!

[shinsaku]

Ahh... The thread for this game is back again! So finally I get to post my praise for this pearl.

When Martian Dreams was released in 1991, I played it for a while, but didn't finish it. If I remember correctly, I was stuck at some point, and had no idea what to do next. Mind, in those days, you'd usually have to rely on the Hints pages in computer magazines if you needed help for a game, lest you move in the world of BBSes. Anyway, I never wholly forgot about Martian Dreams. From time to time, I would remember the impressive red martian landscape and the combat against unusual creatures that were invariably green. From time to time, I would stumble across names from the late 19th century which had a strangely familiar ring to them (Geoges Melies, Sarah Bernhardt, G. W. Carver) -- only to remember that I sort of met them on the surface of Mars. And when I found this game on Abandonia, I knew it was time to enter the Space Cannon once more to embark on this really great adventure.

This game is, indeed, an underestimated classic. It combines the gameplay that was well-refined over the Ultima series with a story that is at captivating from the onset, adds a setting that is historical and fantastic at the same time, and rounds it up with several very surprising twists in the plot to create a remarkable gaming experience. If you look at the people behind Martian Dreams, this doesn't really come as a surprise. There is Richard Garriott's handwriting all over the game, but Martian Dreams is also one of the first games co-produced by one of the few truly brilliant minds in game development, Warren Spector (as a side note: while Garriott's departure from RPGs to action games was, in my opinion, rather unsuccessful, Spector is the producer of numerous first-person masterpieces).

The resulting game, Martian Dreams, draws from the strength of both: it is full with highly-developed dialogues (despite the keyword technique) that add up to convincing characterizations of the NPCs you'll encounter, and it also conveys the illusion of unlimited possibilities within the game world.

The latter point, however, is one of the few flaws that I see with this game. Because, when I played the game again last week, the same thing happened as all those years ago: I was stuck at a certain point, and the game didn't provide sufficient cues of how to progress further. Nowadays, it is easy to find good walkthroughs on the Internet, but I would've preferred to solve the game by my own. If you're a real gamer, you'll know the slimy aftertaste of walkthrough consumption...

But nonetheless -- this is a great game, and it is further proof why Origin was such an important publisher in the 80s and early 90s. Some time, I'll try to find the prequel to this, Savage Empire. I expect to be as entertained as I was with this title.

Thanks to the Abandonia crew for making it available!

[ACartLoadOfOre]

When I first played this game with a friend of mine back in 1991 we also became stuck on a puzzle that required “A cart load of ore”. For many months we could not figure out what to do as we would get a cart and place ore in it but the game would continually request a cart load of ore! Months later I just happened to place a second load of ore into the cart and clicked on the cart to discover “A cart with 2 ore”. After placing a third we had a cart load of ore and could finally progress and end up completing the game.

To this day (2008) my friend and I colloquially refer to stubborn problems as “A Cart Load of Ore”.

Warren just laughed after meeting him at GDC06 and telling him the tale.