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[moogle]

...on average I don't use P2P programs except for "items" that are unavailable in the US...

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally posted by moogle@Apr 16 2006, 03:48 PM
...on average I don't use P2P programs except for "items" that are unavailable in the US...

Items that are unavailable in the US can be imported, so you still have no excuse :P

[Eagle of Fire]

I am sorry to tell you Natas, but everything you said in your first post related to copyright laws is dead wrong.

When you purchase something, it always come with a kind of contract. You don't actually need to sign it, the law make it clear that there is a bare minimum contract that you have to agree to for everything you buy, and part of that that is the copyright law.

So, if you buy a CD with songs on them for your listening pleasure, you don't buy the right to listen to the CD or the songs, you buy the right to use the CD so you can listen to the tunes on it. What is the difference? Very subtle, but it make the hell of a difference. In expert law hands, it mean that you are 100% sure to lose at court saying things like you said in your first post. For example, even if you do buy the CD with said songs on it, if you download said songs on the internet for free then you break the copyright law no matter what you say because you never actually purchased the rights to the songs itself (it belong to the company who made the disk/the author).

I hope I make some sense to you.

[Sebatianos]

Generally yes, but that may also depend on the country you live in. Not all countries have the same laws.

[Don Andy]

Originally posted by Sebatianos@Apr 16 2006, 11:08 PM
Generally yes, but that may also depend on the country you live in. Not all countries have the same laws.

Which makes it difficult anyway. If you downloaded something from the UK and live in Germany, you might get jailed for it. If however you download it from Germany and live in the UK it might be legal.

Just example countries here. It's pretty difficult to decide about copyright if the law is different in two countries but broken in both.

[natas]

@ Eagle of Fire:

Everything you say makes sense, because of your laws. But your laws don't work here. In my country a contract must be agreed by signing from both sides, or the old fashioned way by shaking hands. Don't laugh, it's true. (online deals like in EBAY are excluded, because you cannot sign with pen or shake hands through the phone line until now)

Your CD example does not work here either. I may record a CD to tape use it in my car, or everywhere else without violating copyrights of any kind. I may also give the tape to a friend (private), nothing is wrong with that.

Things like software companies do in the US do not work here either: If I buy a cdrom in jewel case wich is closed with a label saying; "if you break this seal, you agree to the following ... lots of nonsense ... " has no meaning here. They know it doesnt work, but they seal their software nevertheless.

And we have that p2p, where we have absolutely no laws for that! The atourneys call it "gray zone" of law. Things done by p2p are mostly tollerated if private. But the funny thing, in the public (radio, TV ...) p2p sharer are told to be criminal. This propaganda is powered by the industry, to make people afraid and keep them from doing that.

By conflicts at the court in the past they tried to take copyright for books to solve the problem, but they quickly noticed that doesn't work, so they started building copyright laws for software, but didn't finish because the EU got born and everything would go to be completely different and they still are not ready with that. If you should get to court because of software copyrights today you could be unlucky in town x and lucky in town y 10 miles away. Its a shame, but it is as it is for the moment.

I tend to use my healthy human intellect for my doing, hopefully you get this sentence right.

[Sebatianos]

Unfortunately I'm afraid it may be slightly different. This applied for my country for a log period of time as well, but then they signed a pack of agreements and they did sign that they'll agree to certain copyright laws that were pushed by the US. It doesn't apply to some countries, but some did sign it.

[omg]

you give people the ability to get media for free they are going to take it.
i think the current tactic of flooding servers with porn files that are the same size and filename of the genuine thing to be quite funny, and definatly a lot nicer than spyware and the proposed seek and destroy stuff.
its quite funny tho how this whole thing makes a lot of legally abiding citizens criminals.

[Eagle of Fire]

I find it extremely funny then Natas that you started a thread named "P2P Mythology"... Because since you are part of a country which don't have the standards in copyright laws, I hope you realise that you are in the world minority to this matter... And that talking like you do, you are in fact yourself creating the same "mythology" you try to either talk about or dissipate in this very thread.

[gregor]

Nah the funny thing is that according to copyright laws if you buy a CD and play it on a player with speakers (meaning your whole familly can listen to it) you are already breaching the law. And coudl be convicted by it. But since it would be impossible to convict so many famillies and people just for listening the song they had to either modify the law or tollerate stuff.

It turns out that here they modified the law when it comes to books. You are even allowed to make a copy of whole book if it is ment for personal need and not for selling (ie. for example for education). you can also copy parts of books. as many times you like. which i find a bit bizzare since if you can copy parts you can copy the hwole as well.

They didn't change the law here when it comes to music, films or software. But they did ddecide to be hunting down only those that are making profit with it. but again people who do it for personal use are not prosecuted. this will have to change too, since like books there is more and more material found on CD and is later used for study and education.

And they guy is right when he says that not all countries have same copyright laws (which i already told once). There are some international conventions on this matter, yet from country to ocuntry they are differently interpreted. A country that dares to oppose the US pressure will look differently on these laws. And when you see pictures of the battle against "pirates" from China, and how they are breaking those CD always have in mind they are not doing that to prevent the games from spreading but to prevent porn from spreading. most of those countries have a myriad of open markets where you can buy pirate software or games. but beware of buying porn, because if they catch you doing that, you could get beaten up.

Laregsings posted on the roads will tell you porn is bad but not "software piracy is bad".

As for P2P services i think they are ok. it's all about sharing epople... seriously a lot of opensource programes are offered via P2P. last one i downloaded like that was Open office.

Another thing is that maybe people would be more willing to buy programmes if they werent' so freakin expencive. a copy of music (art) costs from 4-7EUR), a copy of programme costs 20EUR and more. for example i needed a programe for some school work and i would only need it for a year or two, just to learn it. well the programme costs 600EUR and above. so i had to find alternative ways of getting it (but wasn't the P2P).