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[Sly]

Originally posted by R Havell@Jun 17 2005, 07:41 AM
Is it just coincidence that all of the galaxies in the universe are moving away from a single point in space? And that their speeds are such that if one were to rewind time they all would have been at that same point at the same time? That time being several billion years ago.

Did the big bang just explode? Then how did everything start rotating? Or was the matter spinning first then it exploded?

Even more importantly where did the big bang come from. What exploded? Where did the energy come for the explosion to happen? Where did the space come from for the matter to expand into? Where did the matter come from? Either it created itself or matter is eternal.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by cherri@Jun 17 2005, 01:50 PM
I feel sorry fur you guys cuz when u meet him your going to be in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

I'm trembling, really.
Seriously I believe the entire "if you don't believe Jesus will hate you"-rhetoric isn't attracting a lot of new members, its as bad as the ahteist "if you believe you're a moron"-rhetoric.

You know between Athe?sts saying all people who believe in god being weak idiots and christians claiming the world was created 6000 years ago... I think I may just be one of the few moderates in this thread. Can you believe it!? ME, a moderate!

[MdaG]

Originally posted by Sly+Jun 17 2005, 01:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sly @ Jun 17 2005, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-R Havell@Jun 17 2005, 07:41 AM
Is it just coincidence that all of the galaxies in the universe are moving away from a single point in space?* And that their speeds are such that if one were to rewind time they all would have been at that same point at the same time?* That time being several billion years ago.

Did the big bang just explode? Then how did everything start rotating? Or was the matter spinning first then it exploded?

Even more importantly where did the big bang come from. What exploded? Where did the energy come for the explosion to happen? Where did the space come from for the matter to expand into? Where did the matter come from? Either it created itself or matter is eternal. [/b][/quote]
No one knows as far as I know. It's just a theory. It's just that it's the best one we've got so far.

Best one with "proof" supporting it that is.

During my years at college I've learned that there are no such thing as "this is the truth" when it comes to science only "this is more or less probable to be the truth".

[cherri]

I am so sad for you If you cant see God in the world around you, if the magnitude of it all doesnt convince you then im afraid that nothing will.

[Sly]

Originally posted by Tulac@Jun 17 2005, 08:03 AM
So everything that we can explain must be from God? Yes Cars and Computers are made by humans, but if I would show them to someone who didn't see it before they would say it's made by God, same as you say for whole life...

One thing that grab my attention from this quote...

When someone sees a computer, car, watch, building, painting, etc. They still conclude there was a maker. Whoever he is. Now whether they think God created the computer or car, is irrelevant, they're ignorant. They still conclude that someone had to make it.

Saying the whole universe came about by purely naturalistic means is like saying the computer built itself, or the car built itself. See the computer and the car are much less complex than the many of things we find naturally (cells, bacteria, etc), but the computer or car needs a maker, that's logical. So something like cells and bacteria even though they are more complex don't need a designer/maker?

I would like a purely naturalistic explanation for the origin of computers, but you cannot use man as your answer. Purely naturalistic. The answer has to lie within the computer. How did these plastic molecules come together, how did the silicon chips form? Can the origin of the computer be explained from from inside the computer?

Then how can you explain the origin of the universe from inside the universe? There has to be something outside and beyond it.

[Flop]

Originally posted by Sly@Jun 17 2005, 04:48 PM
I would like a purely naturalistic explanation for the origin of computers, but you cannot use man as your answer. Purely naturalistic.

I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that man isn't a part of nature?

[Sly]

Originally posted by Flop+Jun 17 2005, 09:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flop @ Jun 17 2005, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sly@Jun 17 2005, 04:48 PM
I would like a purely naturalistic explanation for the origin of computers, but you cannot use man as your answer. Purely naturalistic.

I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that man isn't a part of nature? [/b][/quote]
Something outside the computer built the computer. But I'm referring to how it came about if it had no maker.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by Flop@Jun 17 2005, 03:52 PM

I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that man isn't a part of nature?

I think he means: if intelligent people recognize the fact that a car didn't just drop out of the sky but had a maker, intelligent people must also acknowledge that more complex things like organisms had a creator.

It's a bit like saying: you can take all the seperate pieces of a watch together and it won't work, the pieces need to be put together by a craftsman horologist.
Same goes with nature: You can have all the elements, but you need a creator to put it all together so that it actually works.

[Quintopotere]

Originally posted by Stroggy+Jun 17 2005, 01:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stroggy @ Jun 17 2005, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cherri@Jun 17 2005, 01:50 PM
I feel sorry fur you guys cuz when u meet him your going to be in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

I'm trembling, really.
Seriously I believe the entire "if you don't believe Jesus will hate you"-rhetoric isn't attracting a lot of new members, its as bad as the ahteist "if you believe you're a moron"-rhetoric.

You know between Athe?sts saying all people who believe in god being weak idiots and christians claiming the world was created 6000 years ago... I think I may just be one of the few moderates in this thread. Can you believe it!? ME, a moderate! [/b][/quote]
I'm also a moderate one! k:

God save all that ones that are good and if they SAY "i'm christian/jewish/buddist/atheist/and so on..."

Hell is not a punishment for who don't believe in something, but a choice that everyone can do...

@cherry: we can see the hand of God even in the evolution...

[MdaG]

Originally posted by Sly@Jun 17 2005, 02:48 PM
See the computer and the car are much less complex than the many of things we find naturally (cells, bacteria, etc), but the computer or car needs a maker, that's logical. So something like cells and bacteria even though they are more complex don't need a designer/maker?

Please explain why bacteria are more complex than today's technology.
And there is a difference between believing in the bible and believing in something greater than the universe.