09-03-2006, 06:11 PM | #11 | ||
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nitra, Slovakia
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<!--QuoteBegin-Bobbin Threadbare@Mar 9 2006, 11:09 AM How do you make a seperate table next to another one?[/quote] ... btw the linking is the only disagreegment of frames(or sometimes is not) i know Quote:
and btw2 if someone want to see my old school project(dont look at photos, they are realy old=], iam not same fat as before ) its here, i used frames, NO CSS and like it very much,just click on russ button WARNING: check the page in IE, since i was very very beginner with internet and dint know that firefox doesnt support "\" but "/" in link
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09-03-2006, 06:51 PM | #12 | |||
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Frames are a very limiting answer to that question (since they'll screw up the page flow and are only useful if the "other" table is flush against one of the sides of the page). You can't be seriously suggesting that the way to do horizontal alignment / block flow properly -- or even sanely -- is using frames? Quote:
You don't have to be tricky for frames to work in IE; they simply doesn't work at all for any browser which doesn't support them. <!--QuoteBegin-_r.u.s.s. page doesnt have to reload after every click (this is great agreegment if one frame is something "big" to load)[/quote] If the frame is something "big" to load other than text it's cached anyway. However, if you have an enormous amount of text data in a navigation frame it's probably time to rethink your navigation. As for all these examples, I've yet to see any of you give me any sort of compelling reason with your examples why it justifies all the pitfalls. Aesthetics isn't a very good reason since none of those sites are particularly good looking. If you want a real example of a site which benefits visually from frames try k10k; just don't try and use it as an example (it's a design site and is going for visuals above all else, including usability). |
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10-03-2006, 12:10 PM | #13 | |||||||||
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Location: Nitra, Slovakia
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why not? by the way.. why do you mean by "<the "other" table is flush against one of the sides of the page>" Quote:
can you give me an example, which USED browser doesnt support frames? Quote:
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If the frame is something "big" to load other than text it's cached anyway. However, if you have an enormous amount of text data in a navigation frame it's probably time to rethink your navigation. [/quote] wht if you want or need to have it? dont tell me its not useful then! Quote:
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10-03-2006, 12:16 PM | #14 | ||
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Location: Nitra, Slovakia
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-sorry, delete this post, i was replying to another topic-
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10-03-2006, 12:31 PM | #15 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,127
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Erm, don't worry, I figured out a way to do it. Now, for more help. Do you need to make anchors for "Back to top" links?
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10-03-2006, 02:36 PM | #16 | ||||
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Mobile browsers. They're only going to be used more and more, and not being ready to support them is a bad idea. <!--QuoteBegin-_r.u.s.s. Quote:
dont tell me its not useful then![/quote] Excuse me, but that's an awfully stupid answer. You offer no real examples nor a defense of why any such examples are the right -- or even a reasonable -- way of doing things. Just saying "what if you need to have it?" is about as vague as you could be, and like I said: I've yet to see you offer any advantage other than speeding the loading time of enormous blocks of text (large enough to significantly impact the loading time of the page) which are held in persistent frames to speed loading time, a bit of a ridiculous example. Quote:
Assuming that you're trying to say that everything can be converted between frames and CSS, then yes, you're right. Then again, programs in any Turing-complete language can be converted to any other Turing-complete langauge. That doesn't mean I care to convert my PHP scripts to assembly. Doing it the right way to begin with (not using frames) makes your site accessable, usable, etc, etc. |
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10-03-2006, 03:54 PM | #17 | |||
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nitra, Slovakia
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[/b][/quote] well, you actually can <_< Quote:
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i already gave you reason, page doesnt have to reload every time you click the link all in all YOUR answer "if you have an enormous amount of text data in a navigation frame it's probably time to rethink your navigation" is very weak minded, since it is good reason. you know, not every frame is navigation bar and your answer is just misleading sh!t. +users with slow connection would appretiate frames, even if the loaded page is not very big next its easy to use next if you are using navigation bar you dont have scroll anywhere, its easy accesable and user friendly and can you give me other disadvantage of frames? ..could you please stop flaming by the way?
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10-03-2006, 04:51 PM | #18 | ||
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Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
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One good reason I can think of using them is when you want to show another website, but keep a navigation back to your own site. Also a pure CSS design is great and very honorable, but old browsers do not support the box model properly (some not at all), so you can't just say "Use CSS" because it really depends on the target user and the reach that the web site is going for. |
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10-03-2006, 04:51 PM | #19 | ||||
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<!--QuoteBegin-_r.u.s.s. Quote:
Oh, sure, because my phone with a 2" screen really benefits from a giant 300px frame (notwithstanding the fact that my phone's browser doesn't like frames). Regardless of if frames are supported on the mobile browsers or not (and they are on some), that doesn't change the fact that on those small screens a framed site is useless. Quote:
The one legitimate argument you have put forth (that they serve as an indirect text caching mechanism) you have yet to support with any sort of usage example. I'm well aware that not all frames are used for navigation purposes. And? Provide me with an example of a situation in which one persistent frame would contain a large amount of text (we're talking at least 10kb) -- I certainly can't think of one. Quote:
Users with slow connections only benefit if the frame is the aforementioned huge, persistent text document. Everything else (flash, images, etc) is cached by the browser. As for usability, that's an easy retort. The following are articles by Jakob Nielsen, the man widely considered the authority on web usability. Frames Suck Most of the Time Original Top Ten Mistakes in Web-design (#1; still a problem, too) Style Sheets vs. Frames That's all without reiterating the same points I've made over the past page (which you still haven't addressed). <!--QuoteBegin-_r.u.s.s. ..could you please stop flaming by the way?[/quote] I haven't yet flamed you. I may have come off as rather abrasive, but that stems from my frustration with you offering nothing but platitudes as rationale in your defense of frames. |
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10-03-2006, 05:13 PM | #20 | |||
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Quoting the draft you linked (note that it's only a draft, not a recommendation): Quote:
<!--QuoteBegin-mika One good reason I can think of using them is when you want to show another website, but keep a navigation back to your own site.[/quote] Doing that is pretty universally considered evil. Remember a few years ago when everyone had to add "break out of frames!" links to their site? When you lock up someone else's site in frames you not only screw up their navigation, scripting, and display; but you also are essentially stealing from them if your "navigation" frame contains ads (About.com and Google Images both still do this and it's still really irritating). Quote:
The box model issues you bring up are possible to overcome, too, it just requires the use of a few well-documented tricks. I've before marked up designs which used decorative "frames" by taking advantage of fixed positioning. The result is visually identical, but semantically sound and degrades exceptionally well. |
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