what on earth is going on here. are the happy retro gameing community vibes no longer here?
anubis - i used to really like sparring with this guy. an unashamed conservative and a good debater. gone. i read the posts that got him banned. i still cant understand why.
seems like an overeaction.
sebatanios - good debater, stonehenge expert, uber reviewer. gone . due to unexplained problem with some of the mods and admins here. i dont see how this site will continue without him. certainly wont be as many games being added. and the forum will definatly suffer from lack of his and anubis's input
kon tiki- another person who is part of the cement of this forum

we already *lost* a lot of the better forum members to a.r
and now in a few days we have lost three of the *old gaurd* as it were due to a problem with some mods/admins

things are going downhill. if this is due to a mod /admin in particular, anyone who is in the higher ranks needs to check that mod/admin
if you are in the workplace and valued employees leave becuase of a supervisor, how long does that supervisor keep there job...

does anyone actually know what is going on here?

There is nothing going on here... We say nothing because there is nothing to be said about all this.

Sebastianos didn't get into a fight with mods or Admins which resulted in his leave, it been his complete decision. As for Anubis, he been banned because of his actions like it been stated already. Threatening admins is not a small offense. As for Kon Tiki, his leave is also his (or her I never remember genders) decision, probably simply following Sebastianos lead. Probably because he(she) wanted to go with a big bang, and this was the best way to do it.

What do you want us to tell you more than that? There is nothing hidden from your eyes which would enlighten you more than what you know already. I myself am pretty puzzled, but as I said in the end it's their own choice.

I just finished writing in the thread about Sebs leaving the site, and I check that also Kon Tiki is leaving?
Unless this is a tactical move from them to push things in a certain direction, this is even worse than I previously thought.


If nothing is going on, how come 2 of the most active members say they are leaving because of differences with the people running things here? (that is a rhetorical question).

I am not even counting Anubis.

I can understand why Anubis was banned.
Kon Tiki left because of something at AR (which I'm not too sure about, but w/e) and I think Seb mainly left because he was busy (he left for a while back also) and now was an oportune moment.

Every forum goes through phases like it... one generation stepping down, replaced by the next, hopefully... if not, the forum implodes unto itself.

Yeah any one who joined in 2005 is the next generation after the people who joined in 2004. If I ever leave you will hear about it. Oh an the 2006 people are the next generation.After 2005 people like me.

Yeah, i can understand people sometimes just need a break to relax..

I did the same for the whole internet and it makes me feel much better to have more spare time and just only played offline games for a while..

Maybe all people will return some day and i will open my arms wide for them :angel:

Now this is getting weird... I haven't been writing that actively, but I've actively read these forums since the day I joined. This community has seen a lot together, everything from deaths to marriages, and now two (more) of the most active members of a very long time are gone.

It's natural, of course.. As TheGiantMidgit said, the generation is stepping down and leaving room for the next one. Still, I wouldn't wish for that to happen. I've seen enough people leave AB, some posting about it with good reasons, some just vanishing over time. Many people have mostly moved to AR, too. Still it's always sad to see an active member of the community leave.

I just hope Kon-Tiki and Seb will be back some day. Of course along with Anubis and all the others.

And all you AR people who seem to almost have forgotten us back here in AB (Tom, Tai, DeathDude and all the others), get back here!!1 :ranting:

Heh, I've been AR-dweller for 9 months or something, and finally I've spent some time here too. And things aren't quite that simple that you can simply point finger at mods/admins when members leave, especially in this small amount. Of course I understand they were significant members, but does that mean the end? No. It's more - like mentioned above - natural cycle and chance to others to take responsibility and work for the sites.

Its the changing of the guard, I suppose.
People come and go and and you just have to understand that they need a break for a while... or they want to make to make a point.

I think its a shame that some people feel that they need to leave rather than sit down and try to work out these issues.

(Then again, I have no knowledge of the specifics so what I just said could be unappropriate.

Well if the old generation is steeping down then that means a new one is coming. I was absent for a month sinmce my old computer refuesed to hook up to our adsl in the end we got a new system.

Business as usual...

You people are a pity.
Especially you, Eagle. Come on, who are you kidding? Seb says himself there was problems with certain mods, and you mean to tell us there is nothing going on?

People, calm down. We should not fight because others left due to personal problems with the admins or mods. Do not forget that this is some kind of a program running on a server for which Kosta Krauth is paying and that, by posting here, we are just editing some files on that server.

Also, do not compare this forum to the real life, since you can not know what is real and what is not. For example, I might be a employee of ESA who has registered here to check on you, or a simple old women who likes old games, or a child (as I say I am) who loves old games and who likes to speak to others. The same can be told about other people on the forum. We all know FreeFreddy. Maybe you are FreeFreddy, maybe I am FreeFreddy. No one knows.

P.S. I chosed FreeFreddy because that's the only thing which came to my mind, not because I would have something against him.

Oh, and welcome to AB's forums, Juni Ori. I hope that your stay here will be enjoyable, altough you came here just when everyone was having fights with admins and old members were leaving. :(

That's very true.

And furthermore there's no need to leave just because of a few probs.
If the two parties can't work it out, just have a night of sleep or two and everything will look completely different.

On the other hand - how can there be that serious(-taken) problems in a free-time community...? :huh:

Some people just have better things to do than talk to people they barely know just because they are saying stupid things. Some times it's just better to leave. Some times you cannot afford to deal with this, because you have better things to do.

Sebastianos has left of his own accord. He was not forced to leave. He was forced to follow the rules of this site and enforce them as moderator. He was asked to stop debating every little thing that went on on this site and remember he was not the one who made this community run. I believe this is what caused his decision to leave.
I understand why Kon Tiki left to a degree. He was unhappy about an incident on AR and that spilled over to here. Why that had to spill over, however, I do not know. There was obviously a lot of bad blood between the members involved.

I have always been impressed at the way Kon Tiki behaved as a moderator and I am sad he has chosen to leave.
I am not sad Sebastianos left as moderator. I am sad he left as updater and as part of this community.
Are the recent egresses of regular members connected? At some level yes but not directly. This site is professionalising and that means changes to the way we operate. This has caused friction between a few people and what we see here is a result of that. The more immediate reasons for all of this are separate and unique to each case.

Abandonia will continue on just fine without these members. We have a large staff of people behind all the activities of abandonia.

On behalf of the admins I wish everyone a splendid time on Abandonia

This just happens. Sometimes people leave because they really can't get over something, at other times they just gradually lose interest until a very small thing makes them lose it completely.

Heck, a year ago I was an active member on no less then 8 forums.
Now Abandonia is the last one, and I can't even tell how long I'll stick around.

TheChosen will be stunned if he sees this in two months! :omg:

i doubt this thread will still be floating in 2 months. t.c will just notice the lack of members i guess.


after the niles explanation it makes a little more sense. espicially after checking some of the threads in the forum suggestions section. ahh well.
cheer niles. i guess this is what i have always liked about this place. that when there is a disturbence you admin guys will discuss it with us.
its a shame that this has happened though over some differences in opinion on site *policy* or whatever

i wonder what kosta thinks of all this?

If I'm saying that nothing is going on, then I mean it. I would never go and tell you something just to cover something else up. If it was the case I'd prefer to say nothing instead.

Kosta knows very well what is going on, to an extent we could even say that he has a direct impact on all of this. People took sides with time, and when Kosta came and recalled to everyone the direction the site was supposed to take, it didn't pleased everyone... It's just a normal thing IMHO that oppinions differ on the internet. We all come from different country and thus all have a different culture.

He was the one setting up the policies.. Seriously, go conspire about the 9/11-incident or the JFK-murder, but leave this forum out of it, because it ain't leading anywhere.

did neither of you read my last post. the niles gave an explanation that explains rougthly what is going on. then the two people who have been a big part of this seb,anubis,titki thing come on to say im going on about conspiracy theroies?

jesus bloody christ. i know that a big part of sebs problem was titan and EOF . funny how these are the two people appearing on this thread to say nothing is going on.

its not a conspiracy, im not saying that it is. but the reosens seb gave for leaving suggested something was going on regarding site policy that he didnt agree with. why couldent you two react in a way more akin to how the niles responded.
(niles response being of the mature kind i expect from this forum)

and by the way titan and EOF i actually respect the way u guys work usually. but these posts of yours on this thread are a little reactionary. possibly due to the fact that it is beef with you two that has caused this recent split.

tensions are running high and you 2 have been taking a lot of flack recently. but still....

...? :blink:

Why am I always the last person to get the news? Your last post, OMG, make to sense to me.

Please explain a little more because I'm even more confused. To my knowledge I never been one of Seb problems, in fact we practically never talked to eachother. Second to that, I don't have the tensions directed toward me as you are saying either.

Same goes for Anubis and Tiki, in fact. I hardly ever talked to them, what would be the problem they have with me? I only did what I had to do, so if they had a problem with me then they had a problem with Kosta and the whole site. Maybe that's what you refer to here, but then again it's no wonder what happened happened if it's the case. It was only a question of time.

sorry dude. i guess i made the common mistake of thinking the two comments below mine were related to me. i apoligise for that.

as for peoples problems with you.. damit. i dont have one, but i have noticed anubis and seb having a go before at the way you run your section of the forum. i think my brain just decided that it was part of the reosen. stupid brain.

*apoligies*

Without pointing fingers at anyone or blaming people; Most of the flame-wars and admin/members arguments start when people just ASSUME things. When something happens and you don't know a thing about it, don't just go around and spit your assumptions, just send a PM to one of us and ask for some info. You'll get an answer, and if we feel it's important for the general public, we'll create a topic.

Actually, I'll spill the beans on this one. Because I am sick and tired of people always thinking there is more to the story - and I'm especially upset that Seb (and Tiki) left the way they did. :angry:

Not only did they just up and leave without notification, but they also suggested in both their farewell speeches that the rest of the team had treated them badly.

Seb left because he disagreed with me and Danny acting on a spam post.

This is why Seb left:
(I have kept the names of innocent standby-ers anonymous, and I apologize to the rest of the Moderators for doing this, as it quotes them as well. But that is the only way to show what really happened. I'm just so fed up with the recent event, and how it is always made it look like the team that created this site and has looked after it with love is turned into scapegoats when something bad happens.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 05:29 PM Why are you always trying to find something wrong on Abandonia since a little while Sebastianos? I can't even begin to formulate something on how this could be somehow wrong in anyways. The only thing is that Danny could have sent a PM instead of saying this publicly, so the only slightly problem I could see here is execution. What is the problem here anyways? And who cares if there is slight rules which are not the same between Abandonia and AR? After all, they are different sites.:blink:

<!--QuoteBegin-Tom Henrik @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 05:37 PM

:huh:

Anyways...

Yes, I told Danny to reply to it, but also to be polite. Iron didn't get a single warn increase - and the reply is so gentle, it can't even be declared as a verbal warn.

However... if you are going to point fingers and say "Bad Tom for not using the hidden forum!!!", then please let me point to your actions as well.

Not only did you object the ruling (read: polite remark) from Danny publically, you also completely contradicted another Moderator publically - and said that it was ok for Iron to continue to do so in the future.

Two actions that should've been posted in this forum instead.


Danny contacted me on MSN and asked if he should do anything about the post. I told him to reply to it, but do it politely. Which he did.

He got a complaint from another member, and he acted on it - but he also seeked out council for his actions. When someone complains, you have to do something.

And when you disagree with the rulings of another Mod or Admin, then do something too - but not publically.[/quote]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sebatianos @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 06:00 PM Eagle: Yes, there are some different rules, it seems that Tom has mixed them up. I have explained this very carefully in the first post here. If you have any questions or doubts ask away - but please publically. TOM!!! The rules on Abandonia don't state anything against posts made up of only smileys! I posted and contradicted Danny's decision publically - because it was a wrong decision. If I hadn't the truth would neve even come out!!! That is one of the things I dislike about doing things away fromt he public. YES I am pointing a finger at you! WHY??? You TOM made this forum with a specific purpose - YOU are not doing what you said everybody should be doing. If I who were against this forum, started following the rules (although with complaints included) then YOU how made this forum should do so as well. These are double standards. That's exactly what got the mess last weekend started - double standards. You can't live up to your own word. One of the admins even said, that's why they don't want to promise much... I can look for the exact quote. This is also why I thought this very forum was not needed. Because I didn't feel the need to report every such thing here - yet YOU made it and said we should do exactly the thing YOU didn't do (nor Danny for that matter). You said there was no warn for Iron - well of course not. HE DID NOTHING WORNG!!! There shouldn't have even been the PM. Because there is no rule against what he's done and the post wasn't spaming nor trolling. the report was the thing that was wrong. It's *censored* who reported it - *censored* obviously made a mistake. Probably not realising it. *censored* the one that should be told that there was nothing wrong with Iron's post, so *censored* wouldn't burden the moderators with such reports in the future. Fawfulhasfury: Sorry if this upsets you. I apreachiate you wanting to keep peace here, but this really isn't the thing to sort through the PMs. It's something that should at least concern the comunity, if not get it activly involved. Also as most of you might have read by now - I really dislike doing things through PMs. It's Personal Messages - and I've nothing personal to say to Tom. The last thing I had to say to him personally I did - and it was about his latest review (Barbie). This isn't personal - this is site managment - something that is either done seriously - done loosely - or left alone. Thus far we've been doing it loosely and the site ran just fine. Tom wanted to make the mods/admins a tight unit - so I'm complying to what I enterpreted were his wishes.

<!--QuoteBegin-Danny252 @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 06:04 PM

Eugh.. this is giving me a headache.. really..

How come I always end up getting people shouting and ranting?

Anyway.

I do agree that it wasn't a "permaban+nuke" class offence, it wasn't even an offence, technically. However, smiley only posts aren't exactly the best thing to have around. So just asking him to maybe put a bit of text in surely cant hurt.. can it?[/quote]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sebatianos @ Apr 23+ 2006 - 06:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sebatianos @ Apr 23 @ 2006 - 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Quote: Originally posted by Danny So just asking him to maybe put a bit of text in surely cant hurt.. can it? Well, the way he took it, it seems it didn't hurt. But to sort this thing through: What was the actual report made? Only Chaterbox admins can see it - so that one would probably make a difference as well. And did you (or anyone else) say to *censored* about it (if anything at all)? *censored* report wasn't called for. The rules clearly state in which cases a report button should be pressed. It's not an offence that *censored* reported the post, but *censored* should be told, that it was a mistake on *censored* behalf. Every report should be checked, because the person who reports may be wrong as well. If that would have been posted here before the action was taken I would have explained my point of view about it (which if nothing else is technically correct). So if this forum is to continue - some further rules should be applied to it - or the posts of moderators reporting their actions should be optional. If a moderator doesn't want to post here about the actions taken (because the only reason Tom gave we should, is to protect ourselves), then the moderator won't post here. It's not like Tom hasn't given out requests (or was it even an order) that made nosense... Remember the one stating that every non-english reviewer should also supply a review in the native language. That one caused some problems already. If that rule was to be kept then you can bet you'd have 100 less reviews of me and wouldn't see me here anymore. EDIT @EAGLE: Midless acusations. It's MINDLESS to say that somebody (in this case TOM) did the wrong thing? Where do you get that idea...[/b]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Niles @ Apr 23+ 2006 - 06:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Niles @ Apr 23 @ 2006 - 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Abandonia currently is ruled by common sence and netiqued. Smilie only posts are spam by common account and Tom has thus acted well within his duties as admin. A new set of rules is in the works but currently not ready to be placed online. Sebastianos, I appreciate the zeal with which you are doing your duties on the forum but right now that zeal is counter productive. Your constant bashing of us (admins) serves no purpose but to alienate you from the from us and most of the moderators. Please keep in mind that, although we welcome your comments, you do not have final say in matters and you are not always right.[/b]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Henrik @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 06:46 PM I edited Danny's post, so that the complainter is kept anonymous. Keep that in mind, Danny. Don't mention them by name ;) Otherwise the one who complained may be attacked over PMs by the person they complained about.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sebatianos @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 07:10 PM Quote: Originally posted by The Niles Sebastianos, I appreciate the zeal with which you are doing your duties on the forum but right now that zeal is counter productive. Thank you. It is nice to know that it is appreciated - and I'll keep it in mind that you find it counter productive, so I'll restrain myself from doing my duties with a zeal. Quote: Originally posted by The Niles Your constant bashing of us (admins) serves no purpose but to alienate you from the from us and most of the moderators. I see no bashing. If one makes a mistakes there are two ways - either cover it up - or strighten it out. The netiquet is not posted anywhere, nor is it a generally known document. Also there are situations where things can be expressed perfectly well with a single clickable smily. This was one of such cases, so it was neither spaming, nor breaking a netiquet - it was a reply. Unlike a certain other post (one of which I reported not so long ago, that had a single flaming word repeated several times and was followed by numerous smileys). Quote: Originally posted by The Niles Please keep in mind that, although we welcome your comments, you do not have final say in matters and you are not always right. I know perfectly well I am not always right. But could you care to explain how this is one of such cases? Because in this case I am right (again - proove otherwise). I know you're probably concerned at this point that my strong reaction would start a further quarel on the site. That is not my intention - thus I shall try to calm down. But in this specific case (because we're talking about this one at the moment) I know I'm right - and if you read everything carefully you'd have no choice but to agree (and you don't need to reply - but are most welcome to do so, if you feel like it).

Quote:

Originally posted by The Niles @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 08:00 PM Netiquete is not a document. It is a well established set of rules that governs normal conduct on the net. As a netizen you are required to know it. This set of rules is enforced on Abandonia. It says you may not, for instance, post an all caps post. That would be rude. It also says you may not post single smillie posts. It does not matter what your opinion on this matter is. We enforce netiquete and as moderator here you are required to do the same. On a side note. Reporters of posts are ALWAYS confidential. They are not to be discussed under any circumstance, especially with outsiders. Should the report function be abused, or you feel it is, then this should be reported to an admin who will investigate the matter.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sebatianos @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 08:07 PM Quote: Originally posted by The Niles Netiquete is not a document. It is a well established set of rules that governs normal conduct on the net. As a netizen you are required to know it. Netizen... A citizen of the internet? I am not one, because no such thing exists. A well established set of rules that I (And everybody else who uses the internet) is requreid to know? Don't make me laugh! Most people don't even know the constitutions of their countries - and those are written and printed documents. This is not a document yet everybody should know it - HOW and WHY? Quote: Originally posted by The Niles We enforce netiquete and as moderator here you are required to do the same. This post is the first time I've heard about it - and it's the last time I want to hear about it. GOOD RIDANCE!

*This is where Sebatianos decided to pack his bags and leave, I believe.*

<!--QuoteBegin-Fawfulhasfury @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 08:10 PM

Heh, the posts in the members you know topic were removed right as I was about to report puffins last post. :P Funny. Couldn't you all discuss this on msn, its cluttering up the forum here...a forum not made for arguments...and this will be my last post in this topic...good day[/quote]

<!--QuoteBegin-The Niles @ Apr 23@ 2006 - 08:15 PM
[b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Sebatianos

I agree. As a moderator and a "Netizen", I begin to even feel insulted by all this.

If you don't know what netiquette is, then it really raise a few good questions on why you are a moderator in the first place.

Edit: Since I have a strong feeling that whatever we say you won't accept it, I searched thru the wikipedia for the definition of netiquette and netizen for your viewing and your learning pleasure.[/quote]

*End of the entire topic, and then Seb made his farewell speech.*


Read whatever you want into this, but that is the reason why Seb left.

I think TGM is right. Then next gen ppls. There coming.

I was really expecting someone to post. "Oh, I took care of them..."

thank you for spending the time to post that tom. it makes sense now. as in now we know why this has gone down.
(not as in it makes sense that so much stress has been caused by one post with smileys .. madness)

to be fair to you guys i think it's fair for smiley only posts to be discouraged.

*head in hands* madness...

Another quest for the truth. People that have been here a while and involved in some of the other incidents will likely know that there is always some sort of "Truth-Seeker". Seb is the latest, as sad as it is to see such a contributer leave I don't see know why he felt the need to do so. He seems to have simply over-reacted over what started as a minor incident. Kon-Tiki, our other recently departed member also left of his own accord. However, as far as I know Seb and Raf were quite close. It's possible that they both felt a need to make a point, I'm not claiming this as truth as I do not know their reasoning behind their departures. In their shallow goodbyes they speak not of any hard evidence of the things they hint at. Perhaps, they've made their own "truth" to make themselves feel more significant. Both guys have been here for a very long time, it appears they seem to think they are unimportant in the "grand-view" of Abandonia as a whole. They are. Perhaps, this lack of importance has been taken to heart, the admins will not treat them different from everybody else when it comes to dealing with them. I feel that this whole "We're leaving,admins are the cause" to be the oppisite of what both members have done in the long-run. Both, were active and contributing members of our community. I agree, it's sad to see them gone. Even if I don't see eye to eye with them any longer. Hopefully, if they ever sort their problems out they may return. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Actually none of my business, but I'm still going to say this:

What little I now know - which is nearly nothing more than public knowledge is - forces me to make following conclusions: Sean is close to thruth there. They lacked the self-confidence to work for common good without privileges of their will and were too naive to handle the situation maturely. And guess what: I bet they've already made new accounts...

And I don't want to trivialize their efforts, they have certainly done great job.

its a shame that this minor decision over some smileys has led to some major stress.

OK, I have only one word to say and it will be the only word I'll ever say to this whole discussion:

Ridiculous.

All i can say is meehh.....what's everybody whining about.....it's like this forum is turning to a whining forum.

I bet they didn't. Neither of them was the kind of person to do that.

Well there's only one thing puzzling me, since I joined there were absolutely no changes with admins(I'm not sure if FreeFreddy was an admin or not), and their behaviour, it always seemed the same to me, so I don't really understand why such reactions , it's like they got some sort of break, like they flipped, it's almost identical with Anubis and Sebatianos, except Seb was more cultural and didn't piss of the admins that much...

This Must be a Conspirancy!

Maybe the CIA is eliminating All Forum members!

No, Serious, this makes me Goin' Nuts!

I'm Feelin' Like this site Die with the Leaving of Sebastianos!

Suddenly, Everything is going Downwards...

Although I decided not to return, I wanted to check the PMs as I left directly after making the decision last night.

There were still some information I had there (like some e-mail and things).

I thought I'd simply get that information and leave quietly, but after reading this I feel I need to further explain.

What Tom posted - from the moderators forum is perfectly correct, except for one small detail. After my last post there I have been writing my good-bye and haven't seen any of the replys made to it.

The smileys were just the latest thing - the straw that broke the camels back (so to speak).

The real reson is that I don't feel comfortable on this forum any more.

As most of you who got to know me by now will be able to say - I was above all trying to be humane. I was either joking, being serious, got involved into a discusion... but all of it because I was the way I am in real life as well. It's got nothing to do with my self confidence, neither is it the incapability to work together with people. I simply chose not to work with this particular group.

I don't know if there's something wrong with them or not. I'm guessing it is not - but as I mentioned before (in another post), I've never met any of them. Some at least weren't simply hiding behind their signatures, others never reviels they were even real people... It doesn't matter to a netizen comunity - it does to me personally.

I feel I'm a free man, not a cog in some trendy new experiment, trying to place all the people in a certain group. In this case the netiquete.

It may be that my point of wiev will seem strange to you - or even wrong, but I'm placing moral values above the legal ones. I'm placing case to case tratment of people above a stndardization of the rules. I'm placing the person in the first place - and the rest in the backgroud from which the person stands. For a long time there was no conflict of interests here. Lately things started heating up in me. They finally reached the boiling point - so I decided to leave. And if I leave, I leave everything (including my reviewer/updater position).

It is true I've been very rough on Tom lately. He's been taking it very well I must say. He may resent me, he may not. It's up to him to decide. I acted this way towards him, since lately he was the one who started making changes. He was trying to do what he thought was right. Time will tell if it was. But if a new set of rules is to be placed (the ones that were not discused with the moderators - they were simply told to follow them) and I did not agree to them - I would not let the person who made the rules do something other then follow them to the letter (it was a way of protesting).

I think Sean posted there was something going on between me, Titan and Eagle of Fire. No, nothing was going on. Eagle was one of the people who got fed up with the way I was acting and told me so. He told it to me straight in the face and I can only respect him for it. I never considered him a friend, but I never had anything against him. He was (to me) simply a contributing member.
I never had anything against Titan, so I don't know where the idea even came from. I think he has an interesting sense of humor and he's one of the people I'd actually consider the most human on the site (he's not trying to pretend - he simply is who he is).

So to put it as simple as possible:
1) I loved this place, had fun here, met friends here and being an open person I wanted to share with people (that's why I made so many reviews - I simply like to see that people have a somewhat brighter day because of a little thing I've said or done - I guess that's in most of us).
2) This gave me certain privileges and obligations.
3) The way I should fulfil my obligations did not suit me personally. I saw things in that I disliked. The internet is becoming an importaint socialogical phenomenon and it is changing the entire human society. I have my views on how the world should be - and the concept of netizens something I consider dangerous for the humanity itself. I know I'm only a lone voice and that I'd achieve nothing on the grand scale, but at least I'll have a clean conscience. This may seem strange to people, but that's simply who I am.

Hopefully this will help you understand.

I'd like (to at this point) also congratulate Tom on posting the topic from the hidden forum in public. I see some of my ideas did not fall on unfurthile ground. It was generally the admins saying things should not be dealt in public, but as I said before - if there's something I won't say in public, I certainly won't say it in private (because then it's a thing I shouldn't say at all). Hidding things away from the comunity was one of the things I've ranted about ever since the warn metres were put on the site (and the little Yamcha565656 incident happened).

And now that I've hopefully explained my reasons, the rest of the forum can find peace and also stop guessing what happened.

There, my final post.
:bye:

Just has to say:

When people got problems with eachother it should always be discused private and not in the open area of the forums...

Just to clear this up.

I meant whatever issues you had with the whole admin community. That post was talking about Rafs problems with Tom.

If you're certain you won't be returning, goodbye and goodluck.

"Netiquette" and being a good "Netizen" isn't about being a cog in "the system." It's about treating people with common courtesy and respect in a way that's understood online, in hopes of preventing misunderstandings and unnecessary drama/overreactions. I'm still wondering what exactly is wrong with that.

As for making issues public... Fine, when it's a professional/public matter. Tom's posting of the logs was fine, maybe even necessary, because the individuals who left did so with a certain vagueness and misdirection as to what was going on, leaving everyone else wondering about "conspiracy theories" and "mistreatment."

All it really seems to be to me is a little squabble about enforcing the rules of common courtesy and respecting your fellow forum-dweller. I mean come on - smileys? Is it really worth such drama? In general, most people prefer actual content in posts - that's why it's common sense.

Speaking of drama, I think if you've got a personal problem with someone else on the forum, either work it out privately, or ignore the person. Don't dredge it out for the entire forum to see, it's just not appropriate, as it's personal, not public info. Oh, and it's probably best to avoid interacting with someone who makes you mad, the anger will just make you unlikely to see anything but the negative.

Anyway, this stuff is tiring.

hear hear.

Actually he's making a point.
I've wasted a lot of time with the Internet and I agree with him that the Internet can be a very dangerous medium and it will most likely change the human society forever.
O well, what to do?

No one can do anything. World Changes. It was always so, and it will always be so.

Thats it.

I doubt it :P, but anyway goodbye and I hope you'll return one day, since you'll be missed 'round here. :bye:

Quote:

Originally posted by Stebbi@ <!--QuoteBegin-Tai

hear hear.[/quote]I must agree. There have been too many fights and people living lately, so this is very tiring and sad. :( (but then again, anyone noticed how some of the people on AR's forums have come to save our asses from this madness? we are saved! :D )

I wonder why you're on Tom's side. And why you make a long post and then say it's tiring.

I think this thread has fulfilled its purpose. Call in the closers.

Why should we close it? There isn't any flaming or spamming going on. If the topic is washed out, let it just dwindle off to the last page of this forum.

Are there sides? I hadn't realized... It seems to me that people chose to leave of their own volition, and that it's their right to do so. Seb himself even gave Tom a nice little pat on the back for the same thing I mentioned, actually.

It's tiring because it's repetative, and I really don't see the point in all the unnecessary drama. Just because I find it tiresome doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.

I think that's a little unfair to say dude, ecause you know full well what implications that statement holds.

I completely agree with Tai, and she said pretty much all I wanted to, or felt was necessary to say. Thank you Tai.

Oh well im newblood so maybe they left to make place for us but I wouldnt leave as long as AB is around so am I (Unless I get Banned...)

Well, I'm new blood too and I got to say, I'm hooked on writing reviews here. Still learning the ropes, sorry for any toes I step on, and hope yawl enjoy my contributions. Can't guarentee how long I'll be around, but for now this place is therapy for me. I enjoy it.

Once the next gen is here posters will be diffrent but abandonia will not fall.

In fact, AR is indirectly responsible for most of the current problems here. It's only fitting that they come over here and try to help us. And it's appreciated too. :ok:

Back to the newblood thing. You guys are new blood just like I was nearly a year ago but hey I do not plan on leaving yet nor do alot of other members.

Eh, any chance the the reason some people.... are leaving is because they either prefer AR or they want the two to join together?

I think it would not be a bad idea to join AR and AB together and make all people with accounts in only one have them still but also add peoples posts from AR and AB together so they have the correct total that they should. If I loose my postcount I will be annoyed though.If you had every thing in sub fourms realoadsed and abaondonia and then the old fourms in their right site it would be good.

That's been discussed before, and everyone agreed that it would be too big, too confusing, too hard to moderate, too many additional permission masks (Tom's recent cleaning spree still left half a dozen for each site, which would lead to about 20 for a combined forum) and that THEY'RE DIFFERENT SITES.

*wishes AR had a name without "Abandonia" in it*

Also, how is AR (indirectly) responsible for people leaving here? A number of people have drifted over there instead of here, but I'd say that's a result of the atmosphere here (and the site content - I for example am more interested in freeware than abandonware as a rule) not a cause of it.

I won't comment on anything else, but for god's sake, the merging of the two sites must be the worst idea for a while! No way, don't ever do that..

I'm also kind of interested in knowing how and why AR as a whole is indirectly or directly involved in any of this - and why it is only fitting that the AR members try to settle this matter.

Sebatianos and Anubis were never big on AR, and Tiki migrated from AR to AB. Him leaving AB later had nothing to do with AR. In fact, according to his farewell speech, it was because Seb left AB that he left - and Seb left because of a smiley issue. Anubis was put on the sideline for causing problems, then threaten an AB admin. Whereupon an AB admin banned him.

Where was AR in all of this? :blink:

About the new people, it's not true, people leave and come, but I still see Danny and Titan often which joined in '03, and the administrators haven't changed in two years too, so I don't believe there is any change in generations, people just come and go depending on their preference...

And yes merging AR and AB (the forums) would be pretty much useless and result in chaos...

[off topic]Has it really been two years already?! :blink:

Holy smokes, you're right!


Hmm.... 5 days until my 2 year anniversary....
(wonders if he should launch another Mega Update to celebrate)[/off topic]

Maybe AR is responsible for people leaving because (1) people find it intollerable being associated with such AR jerksnobs (I don't know about this, I've only heard) or (2) because AR gives people another place to go. Well, no, number 2's right out. Of the, what, three people gone I haven't seen anything about them leaving to spend time with Kosta's other child. They're leaving all together. And about #1, I personally know nothing about this, but I have had almost no association with AR on any level yet, so I don't see how that'd be an issue.

So I think we can stop blaming AR.

Mostly, I'll bet it's just time for them to move on. I've been on forums for nearly a decade that I just up and left when life drew me aside. It'll probably happen to me here. Now, maybe those leaving found an excuse, but the manner of them leaving, especaly Seb saying he's deleting all his abandonware off his personal computer, that says to me it's more than just one guy ticking him off. It was time to move on.

He didn't say he deleted all abandonware he had. He said he erased all the games and reviews he was previously going to upload to Abandonia.

I said AR is indirectly involved because the troubles all began with people arguing that some games on Abandonia should be removed to be placed on AR, and the opposite too. I don't know how, but it somehow escalated slowly up to the point the thread and arguments been resurected lately after a whole year of rest.

I personally don't see the link between the two... However, whenever a big problem arised lately, would it be from Anubis, Kon Tiki or Seb, they always mentioned AR in someway and how what happened "mistreated" them. The whole grudge against admins in general also seem to come from that.

To my eyes, it's most than obvious that it's why Kon Tiki left both site. Anubis seemed to have a similar problem, but he(she) overreacted and deserve his(her) ban. As for Sebastianos... He left from his own accord, but I can't think that he just didn't followed those two there...

Im a member of both and treat in as one why cant every1 else

With all due respect, how about not spreading that sort of rumor if you haven't checked AR out yourself :P

I think it's been mentioned that AR is a different kind of atmosphere, but I personally think it's very welcoming over there.

The rest of what you said is fair ... maybe you should check AR out and see for yourself :)

@EoF: Anubis never went to AR (that I know of). He certainly never interacted on the forum, anyway. Seb visited a couple times, but was never really involved with the community over there, either.

As for Kon-Tiki... what happened with him was a shame, and I'm personally sorry that he left AR the way he did. And, I honestly believe that we all were sorry for it. As a majority, the admins and crew chose not to openly discuss what happened out of respect for him, so that he could work at AB in peace, since members visit both forums.

I do think, though, that most of the above mentioned "rumors" (at least from what I saw on the AB forum) came from the above three people mentioned. Two people who never really got involved with the community, and one person who left with a grudge.

Is AR indirectly responsible for people leaving AB?

Anubis - No, regardless of the fact that it began with a discussion regarding AR, his behavior on AB is responsible for his temporary removal from the AB forum. He never was involved with AR.

Seb - No, he never really interacted on AR, and left because of something that happened here on AB.

Tiki - It's likely that what happened on AR was a contributing factor, but it was in large part his own behavior that led to his eventually leaving there. However, since he left AR over six months ago, and was fine until recently, it seems to me that he should have been able to stay despite his grudge with AR. It seems more likely that events here at AB, such as Seb leaving, were the triggering incidents which made him decide to leave.

Edit: It was brought to my attention that Anubis' ban was temporary. Thanks :ok:

Ok so after reading a lot of these posts here i see everyone is sorry that they left.
now my question here is: what did the admins and mods do to try and keep them?

I mean imagine Ronaldinho not being pleased in Barca and then Raikaard would say well i am very sorry to hear that you are leaving. It's not like we really need you. there will be others to take your place...

yah i am doing this comparisson because i know that these were not just people that were involved in forum chat, but they did a lot of other BIG stuff for free.

Sure you can have other people doing reviews, you can even rate the reviews and give them point for donwload accordingly, but then you have situation like on Oldgames.nu, where most of reviews suck and also the forum when you ask for some help in a propper way you are lucky if you don't get banned. well if that's what you want to have it's fine by me. but bare in mind that things could go wrong... believe me, i've seen it.

I mena who cares if one only posts a picture showing their emotion in his post. especially in blah blah topic. where the talk/discussion is supposed to be free with minimal moderation. at least that's how i understand it. i also understand that some like to flame. and that topics like that should be closed because they are not benefiting anyone. But problem is if topic "goes" offtopic in OFFTOPIC forum, why close it? it's offtopic (no connection with games) anyway...

Oh well it's not my forum, i am just a visitor here anyway...

Better you ask yourself who would be willing to do so many updates (and quite good reviews) and who will be now willing to do translations for them as well. that's the real question. I understand you are "sorry" and ok a member has left, but where is the replacement? especially since he wasn't just a forum member, but also a team member.

if there is no replacement it can only mean (1) that he was't needed in the first place (others could do just fine without him) or (2) that he actually was very much needed and now team is weaker. Some professionalisation...

We don't try to keep people here by offering them special deals. If someone is unhappy and wants to leave, then they are free to do so.

And neither Tiki nor Seb were inreplaceable. The site existed before them, and will exist after them.

People work here because they want to, and when they don't want to anymore, they leave. This site is based on voluntary work. Not binding contracts.

Uhh.. not sure who you're refering to...

Anyway, as an analogy -

if I owned a company, and I had an employee who quit because they were disatisfied with the way things were run, I would just let that person go, especially if their method of dealing with the conflict was disruptive to the team as a whole.

In that case, I definitely wouldn't consider the person a member of my team, because they are counterproductive to what the team is trying to accomplish. I mean, there are definitely instances where things could be "fixed" so the person could stay, but there has to be a really good reason to make exceptions for one individual when everyone else works under the same circumstances, and the majority doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

I think it needs to be repeated that no one forced, or even asked either Tiki or Seb to leave the site. Besides all that, working for this site is voluntary... meaning, you can stop working if you have better things to do, and there's no reason for anyone to raise an eyebrow if someone makes a personal decision to stop working on the site.

You're not really saying that, are you? I think we have all established so far that Seb was an irreplacable member of this forum. As was Anubis and as was Tiki. The point about the existence is good, but the first of the quoted sentences is rubbish.

Everyone has had their say in this. Everything has been explained and now it is time to move on.

[ somewhat off-topic ] If I was Rijkaard I would replace Ronaldinho with Kaka from AC milan since he is more of a teamplayer instead of a one-man show :D [/somewhat off-topic]