| 21-03-2012 08:56 PM | ||
| RRS |
I've recently realized that it's a major omission / design fault on the developers' part that the Harpoon didn't feature Falklands War scenario. I'm not familiar with the recent Harpoon editions, but my claim is surely valid for its first 10-years or so - up to Harpoon'97. There weren't many large-scale naval conflicts in the past 50 years, so it's natural they've stick to hypothetical NATO vs. USSR scenarios (with what-if set-up you can design to your heart's content), but to pass such opportunity? I don't get it... AFAIK the only historical scenario was 1991 Gulf War included with IOPG BattleSet. |
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| 08-08-2010 07:51 PM | ||
| dkw |
The poor "balance" with the various scenarios is to show "real world" situations. Unfortunately, Harpoon is a VERY DETAIL oriented game with EXCESSIVE Micro-Managing of EVERYTHING. Missing one little detail can doom you to failure, and I have failed far more often then I have succeeded, average win/loss ratio (by my estimation for myself) 1 win for every 30 losses. Sacrificing a weak ship to survive is a good tactic, and it is what many real world people would do in your situation. Think of it like chess, sacrificing a pawn to remove your opponent's rook. You also need to pay very close attention to all the details of every little thing. Moving ships around in their formations, direction of facing, use of radar and sonar (who, where, etc.), how to use and combat sonar in regards to a thermocline, the difference between a HARM, AMRAM, LR load out for your planes and helicopters; the list goes on. Don't forget that "Narrowing your Profile" (turning into or away from the attack) reduces the chance your ships will be hit. That tactic works better against torpedoes then missiles, but the computer uses that tactic regularly even against missiles so it has to be worth something. Going along with the "Narrowing your Profile" is "Weaving." By "Weaving" aka Zig Zaging back and forth, it constantly causes the enemy missiles to keep changing directions, which helps evade enemy missiles as they are more likely to over correct, fall short, over shoot, or run out of fuel because they are no longer going in a straight line to get to the target. Don't forget how Radar works; sends out a wave of radiation which bounces off things and comes back to the sender. Out in the middle of the oceans and seas, you are the only thing out there. However, if you are close to land, the Radar radiation bouncing off the land can help hide your ships, buying you a few extra seconds at best. Sonar works similarly to Radar, but uses Sound under water. At a certain depth, there is a natural phenomenon called a thermocline. Sonar coming down from above bounces off that and returns to the ship, while sonar coming from below goes right through. You can hide submarines under the thermocline, making airborne and surface sonar unable to locate them. There are all sorts of little details like that in Harpoon that can cause you to lose. In the Norway scenario that is being discussed, occasionally, one of my Destroyers was armed with a couple short range SAMs, which managed to shoot down 2 enemy missiles. That helped my ships live long enough to actually launch all 6 Exocets. Don't forget, your Destroyers have a 40mm Air Defense gun on their Stern, but it can only fire at things directly behind your ships. During my attempts at that scenario, that 40mm actually shot down a missile and bought my ship enough time to fire off another salvo of Exocets before being destroyed. Players also have to learn HOW the A.I. reacts to situations. The A.I. likes to launch attacks at Maximum and Near Maximum ranges, but this varies. If you can turn your ships fast enough to run away from the attacks, sometimes the enemy missiles fall short. Truth be told, I am no where near as skilled as my father was at the game. He could get a Decisive Victory on any scenario no matter which side he played. He was a master of strategy games; beat Harpoon, 5-Star General games, Red Storm Rising, Steel Panthers series all with Decisive Victories in every scenario and/or campaign, to name a few. Most of my advice for Harpoon comes from what I learned from him. Scenarios where you get Aircraft Carriers are MUCH easier once you learn how to use a carrier's planes. Harpoon is unforgiving, just like real war. The original developer of Harpoon wrote books for NATO about Ships, Planes, Subs, Ship Based Weapons, and techniques for combating them. Many times as I read through the manuel and tactics guide it keeps saying, "You need to learn for yourself," "Learn from your mistakes," "Get the experience needed to win through trial and error." Harpoon is all about Details, Knowledge, Experience, Initiative, Instinctual Decision Making, and Speed. You don't have time to sit and wait for the right opportunity; you have to make the opportunity appear. |
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| 04-08-2010 04:27 PM | ||
| deanolium |
Yeah, the manual's walkthrough isn't the best, though it does teach the basics of controlling the game. I'm only really a beginner, but the main point of the game is really a kind of hide and seek. The weapons are very effective and have a very large range, so the idea is to try and find the enemy ships before they find you. Once you find them, don't attack straight away, but use this information to try and formulate an attack plan where you can attack them as much as possible whilst they can't do the same to you. As long as you aren't giving yourself away then you have time to do this. Also in mission 2, as NATO you just need to get home - so don't worry about killing everything. Try and find them, but then use that to help sneak past them. Accept some losses as long as it helps you. It is a hard game, but it's not just down to balance, it's down to figuring out what the best strategies are. Try and find what the pros and cons about both yours and the enemies ships are, and exploit. Unless you really need to, be very careful with sensors. As far as balance goes, whilst the missions will be unbalanced, I don't think they're all so bad as to be unwinnable. Just some sides have an easier time. That said, it would be much better if they gave a value as to the balance. It is curiously fun though, even if you know you're going to lose. |
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| 04-08-2010 03:37 PM | ||
| luismw |
Don't get me started on the second mission. The manual -I managed to get one, by the way- tells you to launch a helicopter to meet the russians and attack them. It gives you a step-by-step procedure and just before the helicopter gets to the Russian ships, the manual reads "At his point, we cannot guide you any further..." Well let me guide you: that helicopter will be shot down before it gets to launch anything, it doesn't matter if you fly very low or very fast. I really want to like this game, but so far I find it unbalanced. I can't really complain, because that lack of balance is intentional. |
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| 04-08-2010 12:06 PM | ||
| deanolium |
Quote:
It is a hard one, which is kinda strange really. You'd imagine most people would play as NATO to start with, so to have the first scenario as one that is so heavily balanced against them is an odd choice. Even in the manual, it advises to start with the second scenario! |
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| 04-08-2010 08:35 AM | ||
| luismw |
Thanks for the advice. However, I don't quite undertand what you suggest for the first mission. I tried playing as the Russians and it was a complete cakewalk, my ships are faster, have very long range weapons compared to the Norwegians, and it's impossible to lose. Playing as NATO, the best strategy I could come up with was to spread out and not to use any kind of sensors. That way, I was able to sneak up on the Russians and launch a couple of missiles. It didn't help, though, because the missiles were shot down and then it was payback time, and there's no way to escape that I know of. In any case, I'm enjoying this. I'll try to find some more balanced missions. |
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| 02-08-2010 10:07 PM | ||
| dkw |
There are no "absolute" walkthroughs for Harpoon because each scenario is partially randomized. One game, the enemy fleet is North of you, and next game that same fleet is now to your West. If you follow a guide for fighting the North fleet, when it is really a West fleet, you will be destroyed everytime. I can only offer advice on how to better yourself. 1. Read ALL the in-game information about your ships, planes, helicopters, etc. Some ships are armed with jamming equipment and weapons that can shoot down missiles, but ONLY if the enemy missiles are coming from a specific direction in relation to the direction your ship is facing. 2. Scenarios where you get a Carrier, and thus can launch planes, are easier for beginners because you have more options at your disposal. 3. If you choose "No" for Start with Full Ordinance, the enemy will have fewer Long Range Missiles, among other things, but so will you. 4. In the scenario you refer to, you have to draw the Russians close to Land. Use the coast line as a "shield" and get them to come you. When you see the Russian ships, attack and run away. A Zig-Zag pattern may help with the running away part, but not always because it is best used against Aircraft then other Ships. You have to draw the Russians into range of your gunboats and their torpedos. Don't go to them, make them come to you. 5. Don't be afraid to play as the other side once in awhile. Learn what they have for ships, weapons, etc., how best to use those weapons, and what their weaknesses are. If you were a real naval admiral being sent into a war zone, you would have that information at your disposal, i.e. what the enemy is capable of and how to combat it. 6. Don't get frustrated. You will lose far more often then you will succeed. Learn from your mistakes, try new tactics and ideas, and don't give up. 7. This is not an easy game. The AI is well made, knows the tricks on how to win, knows what all the ships can do, and will always surprise the unwary. The AI can be defeated, but you have to be willing to devote hours of your time to learning the details of the game. 8. Strategy and Flexibility are your best weapons. Out think your opponent, out smart your opponent, and learn to predict their actions when you have only seconds to react. Harpoon is very difficult, and requires the players to devote large amounts of time to learning the game and its details if they want to win. |
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| 02-08-2010 05:29 PM | ||
| luismw |
Hi, the game works for me flawlessly. Two questions: Where can I find the manual of this game? Is there any walkthrough? I've waited a long time to try my hand at this game and after five minutes with the first mission of the first scenario I get my ass kicked. I'm so completely overpowered by russian forces (they have much, much larger weapon reach and move faster) that I think that I must be missing something. Thank you. |
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| 02-08-2010 03:50 AM | ||
| TotalAnarchy |
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| 01-08-2010 10:49 PM | ||
| Cycieties |
Just got an error message while playing. "Irrecoverable System Error: (Mem Mngr) 10, code = 96,21,-1" Could it be the DOSBox or the game itself? Never had a problem with DOSBox before so why now? Might wanna check the upload. |
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