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Old 08-09-2011, 07:16 PM   #11
The Bloodhawk
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I totally support the TC, but I'd only want to see 1-10 scores instead of 1-100. Scoring is a nice little thumbnail, but 1-5 scoring NEVER works, for whatever reason, people tend to dish out 5s like it's the status quo, whereas most people will be happy with giving even some of their favorite things 8-9s.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:18 AM   #12
StaaViinsZ
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Talking Wall of Text based on Game Ratings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloodhawk View Post
I totally support the TC, but I'd only want to see 1-10 scores instead of 1-100. Scoring is a nice little thumbnail, but 1-5 scoring NEVER works, for whatever reason, people tend to dish out 5s like it's the status quo, whereas most people will be happy with giving even some of their favorite things 8-9s.
Well, If forced to, I will rate things on a Five Star basis... however, on my reviews, and if at all possible, I have been known to give scores based on a 10 number scale. Occasionally a 1.1 1.2 1.3 etc. scale.

It is true, though. If something gets "Five Stars", it often means less than if something gets "10 Points" or "10 Stars".

Part of this is that something that is achem, "COMPLETELY AWESOME" might get rated 5 Stars because it was really good. That same game might get rated a 8.9 in a ten point scale.

It's almost like they round in a 5 Star/Point scale. Kindof like " Well, this game only deserves a 8.5 out of ten, but I'm going to give it Five out of five because bad isn't bad enough to put the score down lower to a four."
Some of it is personal taste, and mood.

Also, it's to be noticed that, to the extent of my knowledge, ALL games have flaws. Some are small, some are large, some are so miniscule you may not even realize that they're there, but there really is no "Perfect Game".

For instance, DOOM. A loved and cherished classic. Flaws? Sure. Can't look up or down. Uses sprites for enemies.
Of course, these "Flaws" are only "Flaws" in personal opinion. Some people may love sprites for enemies. I actually like them, myself.

From a neutral standpoint, however, from hindsight with games with 3D characters, I would call it a "Flaw". Although that definition is HIGHLY subjective, considering at the time they didn't have 3D models readily available to them, and therefor it was more of a "Lacking" than a "Flaw", back then. However, when it was released, it was neither a Flaw or a Lacking because 3D models and Looking up and down didn't exist yet.

It's hard to say DOOM was flawed. Essentially, though, all human creations are flawed. Humans aren't perfect, so why would their creations be perfect?
They aren't! Whether that "Flaw" is actually annoying to you or not, or whether that "Flaw" doesn't even come to your attention until years later, it doesn't change the fact that it was just something they didn't do.
Sometimes you could blame them, as they were negligent. Other times, it's technology that out-does them.

Anyway, the point of all this is, that you can't argue that a game is flawless. It's all opinion, and where others see nothing you may see an ugly sore.

Which is why the "5 Star" rating doesn't really make sense.
Of course, in the sense of it as a rating system, it would proclaim "Absolutely flawless! No faults! Nothing Wrong!" Sometimes, though, it's simply used as another way of saying "Great. Very good. Exceptional."

I personally don't take it all too seriously. (Possibly contrarily to my "Wall O' Text" here) After all, Everything is so subjective. The inclusion of machine guns in Medal of Honor (In reference to the first MoH game, on PS1) may make some people like the game more. (That would be most people)
Some people could immediately stop playing the game for that very same reason, because they can't stand MG's. (LOL)

Sometimes when rating a game, it's more "What do you think of it, from a semi-subjective point of view" than "What should you say of it".
Like, I've rated a game 10 out of ten before. Was I saying the game was "Flawless"? Well, in my state of mind, in my opinion, perhaps.
Probably not though. I am more conveying the fact that "There are very few games which I like this much", not "This game is literally perfect in every way".
Perhaps "This is one of my All-time Favorites".

In some cases, I've written a review with Gamespot's Rating system, where I gave my personal rating, and my rating based on all the comparisons that could made in the gaming world. Ironically, I looked up that title, (Iron Man 2 for Wii) and my "Game World" rating was within .5 points of theirs. Amazing.
The reason I gave a separate rating for each?
Well, in my mind, my personal rating was going to be much too jaded to use it as a formal rating. (I've never actually had any reviews published, though)
For instance, I absolutely love certain movie/comic/game franchises. Like Iron Man. I love Iron man so much, and games in general, that even a mediocre effort would retain my interest and love.
I will always rate a 5 out of ten game 7.8 because of my franchise love.
It's just the way I am. Possibly even higher than that.

Part of it:
I haven't played the latest, most ultimate games.

Another Part of It:
I tend to like games in general a bit more than most people.

Sometimes I will rate something 10 points. Other times I may say 2.5.
All in all it varies from if I'm trying to form an accurate game community opinion, or my personal opinion.

However, yes, in most situations I will give a game I really like a 8 or 9. However, like I said, my personal usage of "10" can sometimes be "This game is one of my all-time favorites", not "Flawless". This would be why I would give things like "Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast" and "Delta Force: Black Hawk Down" 10 out of 10.
To sum up, If I say 10, I mean 10 in my personal opinion. "Flawless" in someone's personal opinion is quite different than "Flawless" in someone's "Grand scheme of the world" opinion. In my mind, if I find no fault or annoyance with a Flaw of a game's, it might as well not be a flaw. That doesn't change the fact that it's there, and others will acknowledge that. However, if I were to shift gears in one of my favorite games, I could very come up with some things that are flawed or messed up.
Not as many as someone who dislikes the genre, but I would still have a few, since remember, most of my "10" games are 5 to 8.9 games from the eyes of the world.

Anyway, it's all so hokey, but reviews and ratings are simply for enjoyment and learning more about the game, and getting a feel for how good it is from a critic's/another person's standpoint.

Personally, I think they should use Gamespot's 10 point score system with .1 .2 .3 etc.! I would at least do increments of .5 on a scale of ten.

Also, it would be cool if they had a "World of Gaming" rating and a "This Reviewer's" rating. unfortunately that idea doesn't fit in too well because all of the games being reviewed are old DOS games. It could work, though. maybe a "World of Retro Gaming Comparisons" rating?

As I said, if ANYONE has any cool action, possibly other genre, games I could review on Abandonia or for Abandoned Times, PLZ contact me @ StaaViinsZ@Yahoo.com or PM here. Heck, leave a guestbook post on my website www.kittengalaxy.webs.com or www.staaviinsz.webs.com!
Reply to a comment of mine on Yahoo! Even comment on a Photo of mine on Flickr (StaaViinsZ) or find me on Facebook! (Starvio Steves)

Now I've written my own Wall Of Text, (WOT, pronounced WHOT when you see the wall I've created in your face, LOL!) just for Abandonia. Oh yeah, and there's that guy I was replying to, hmm, let me scroll to the top... oh yeah, heh, "The Bloodhawk".

Ain't No Joke, When Your Nose Gets Poked.

StaaViinsZ (Pronounced Stavins Z, not "stah-vi-i-nsz")

Last edited by StaaViinsZ; 01-09-2013 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Typo's, ease of understanding.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:20 AM   #13
marko river
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Just a suggestion: if we are reviewing old games, why not using some of the old ways.

For instance, local magazine had 4 tracks of values (usually from 1 to 10) for each game. I mean, that was before 2000 and they finally switched to 100 points system. But I saw similar things in other countries as well.

Why valuing game from 1 t0 10 or 100, when you could/should value graphics, sound, gameplay and similar. And you try to value that according to the time that the game was released, an people will get better idea of the game.

As I mentioned local magazine (back in first half of 90es) every game had same 3 tracks: visual (graphics etc), audio (music, quality of effects) and controls (speed, hardness and similar). The fourth track was different for the game's genre. Platforms and actions had atmosphere, adventures had scenario quality, simulations had some kind of realism/gameplay valuing etc.

We don't have to use different tracks for different genres, we could simply value atmosphere instead of controls and gameplay as general satisfaction of "how the game goes", and keep it at 4 tracks. Or 3 or 5, whatever we choose, those games were reviewed in many magazines this way at that time, why not do it in similar way?

If we are valuing games with single value, then 1-10 with half values (5.6, 6.5, 7.5) is enough IMO. But why don't we give more info if we can?
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marko river View Post
Just a suggestion: if we are reviewing old games, why not using some of the old ways.

For instance, local magazine had 4 tracks of values (usually from 1 to 10) for each game. I mean, that was before 2000 and they finally switched to 100 points system. But I saw similar things in other countries as well.

Why valuing game from 1 t0 10 or 100, when you could/should value graphics, sound, gameplay and similar. And you try to value that according to the time that the game was released, an people will get better idea of the game.

As I mentioned local magazine (back in first half of 90es) every game had same 3 tracks: visual (graphics etc), audio (music, quality of effects) and controls (speed, hardness and similar). The fourth track was different for the game's genre. Platforms and actions had atmosphere, adventures had scenario quality, simulations had some kind of realism/gameplay valuing etc.

We don't have to use different tracks for different genres, we could simply value atmosphere instead of controls and gameplay as general satisfaction of "how the game goes", and keep it at 4 tracks. Or 3 or 5, whatever we choose, those games were reviewed in many magazines this way at that time, why not do it in similar way?

If we are valuing games with single value, then 1-10 with half values (5.6, 6.5, 7.5) is enough IMO. But why don't we give more info if we can?
Sounds to me you are talking about "Svet Kompjutera"

I was always for descriptive rating to back up the score, like "for that period, graphics were far above average. sound effects are monotonous and don't seem to relate to the action performed. It's a very good story, with many different way to finish the game. Just a single save game slot is disappointing. For those reasons, I score it 7 out 10"

So, some people may not agree with the final score - it is after all subjective. But at least they know what prompted me to give it.

I'm also against half a star rule. I know that 5 star scale with half star option translates into 10 star scale with full stars, but to me 9 out of 10 sounds better than 4.5 out of 5. But that's just me.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:24 PM   #15
Smiling Spectre
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I agree with Pex. Having reviewer's reasons for score is good. Having obligatory scales is bad - because different reviewers have different ideas what it must mean, and as it's scales, no one feels obliged to give more or less explanations.

And agreed with scores too. Partial scores exactly the same as full scores multiple on 10. Why to have 6.9, if you can have 69? Either you are in discrete numbers - or you simply need bigger scale. (For me, 10 is enough, but, well, why not 100?).
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:12 PM   #16
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I think 0-10 is best. 1-5 is too coarse, and %... What could be the difference between 74 or 77 out of 100? None.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:17 PM   #17
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...but if you skip numerical rating, your review won't be considered by review aggregators
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:39 AM   #18
StaaViinsZ
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Talking He-He...

Me: Has anyone read that Wall of Text I posted earlier?

Anyone Else: NO.

Me: Why not?

Anyone Else: How did you even write that thing?

Me: I was inspired.

Anyone Else: What do you mean "Inspired"?

Me: Oh, you know, you just get into a mood to express yourself and start writing and you end up writing something massive.

Anyone Else: No, I don't know.

Me: Pfpht. You must not be a very good writer then.

Anyone Else: Pfpht. You're lame.

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Old 03-09-2013, 10:43 AM   #19
marko river
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You to everyone: Has anyone read that Wall of Text I posted earlier?

Me: Yes. I read it.

You to me: Really?

Me: What, you weren't expecting that, did you?

You: No no, I did, it's just....

Me, interrupting: Why writing entire wall when you doubt yourself that many people will read it?

You: It's not like that. I was thinking that people here are writers, you know... and they understand when someone express himself and comes up with something massive. At least a good writers do.

Me: So you're practically saying that only writer that writes something massive is a good writer, correct? Should we start writing 10 pages for each review to make it better then?

You: No, wait, stop. You're twisting my words around...

Me: Yes, I am.

You: Pfpht... Well, if read that wall of text, why didn't you posted some comment on it, or on some part of it?

Me: No need. Why should I? I wanted to give my own suggestion and opinion, just like you. And yes, there was no need to write a novel instead of few rows when all you wanted to say is "I don't like 5 stars, review is and should be something personal, I like bigger scale better, practically 100 points or at least 1-10 with .5, in other words, 20 points system."

You:... I wa....

Me: Instead you could have used your time and express yourself by writing a review for the game that we don't currently have on site. Any title from Approved Requests would be fine, and there are surely some games you loved to play that are approved for abandonia that you could review, without having to play something new to review. And if "mood of expressing" takes you while you write that review, do go back and do your best to shorten it. Review should not be short by default, I agree, I wrote some lengthy ones myself, but it should be as short as possible, and many times it is possible.

Now, seriously, there are tons of games that could be added to abandonia. I would prefer if you find some game you already know and like and you check that it is approved for our site, make some screenshots, write a review and create your tread (with your username) in Offers forum and state there anything you mean to provide. Don't wait for us to tell you what to review. Simply review something you would like to. We could give you assignment if you really insist, but there surely are few games you would review on your own.

Enough said. I look forward receiving your reviews.

Last edited by marko river; 03-09-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:36 AM   #20
StaaViinsZ
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Red face Heh.

LOL I TAKE IT YOU READ IT?! AAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay, not that funny.
Speaking on the matter of submission and reviews...

I was trying to find something to review that was in the "Approved" section, but I've found nothing so far. Everything either already has a review or isn't listed on the site... Any suggestions could help.

As for submissions, I'm planning on doing one of those soon, if the game is indeed "Abandoned". It's called Breach 3. We'll see. LOL though, I knew that follow-up post of mine was gonna be a slap in the face to forum users... heh, not exactly the best thing if you want to make friends. Which I do!
I mostly just thought it was funny, though. Nothing too serious.
However, I could also come back and say your post was a "Mini-Pamphet-Sized-Novel", when you could have just said that... Okay, that's just a stupid thing to say. I'm not even gonna go through with it.

I did, however, notice while I was browsing through the site:

Quite a few mild grammar errors
and
A few games with reviews that came up as Spanish, which I presume must be "Spanish Only" reviews?

Anyway, I hope to have more friendly convos in the future, hope my previous post didn't tick you off that much. Friends? lol.

Question that you may or may not know:
Is the Grammar squad full or something? I've gotten to the listing for it, and posted, but many other peoples' posts and my post go unanswered.

Also, If this last "Novel" annoyed you, I probably wouldn't recommend reading the one I posted on X-wing Collector's Edition about Abandonware. It's out of place, and it's long, and could be "Offensive" to some Abandonware advocates. Still, though, every post I make is my real opinion. I don't write them to spam people. Even so, I can't keep up the Novels forever, so don't worry, I'll make some more decently sized posts later on.

This place is a really good forum, and thanks for not cursing!

Last edited by StaaViinsZ; 03-09-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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