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Old 03-03-2016, 05:08 AM   #21
Tom Henrik
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Well, we were all a lot younger back in those days. While I do not condone all the craziness that happened, I do understand it. That is one of the problems when you work tirelessly for something you believe in, only to feel that your work isn't appreciated.

That happened to all of us.

But all the history that I have had on this site and AR, did help shape me to the person I am today. While I have been away from the scene for several years, I have been constantly thinking about all the ways we went wrong, and what we should have done to fix it. All of this experience (and a huge amount of money) have gone into creating ViGERP, which is basically the result of ten+ years of hard work and planning.

While I plan on sticking around here as well, it is over there that I am working daily to update the contents. After all, that is my baby, and one that I plan on doing right from the start.
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Old 03-03-2016, 12:41 PM   #22
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Wow Scatty why would anyone want to discuss that now.

Incredible that I have to clarify that Data is certainly not banned. Don't make stuff up. Why would he ever be?
Let's not discuss what Sebastianos did in the end to get himself banned, if done against Abovo it would have got him in court.
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Old 03-03-2016, 03:09 PM   #23
marko river
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatty View Post
I'd be surprised if he mentioned the smurf's closest-running contender for the post counts, back then, in ye olde days. Before he removed that competition, that is.
Sorry, I just named few from the top of my head. But who are you reffering to? Yourself? I haven't seen you posting in a while, could be my mistake, sorry.

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Incredible that I have to clarify that Data is certainly not banned. Don't make stuff up. Why would he ever be?
I think I can second this. I don't remember Data being in some quarrel. Plus I think abandonia owes him a favour or two, which was probably never much known.

Yeah, Seb, Romano, Blood-Piggy... I remember they caused some trouble. Although I was on good terms with everyone and I liked staying out of trouble. We had another big trouble afterwards called Saccade, but that doesn't matter really. I hope we are all a bit older now Except for dosraider, that is
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Old 03-03-2016, 03:44 PM   #24
Tom Henrik
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It has been many many years since the dissident issue, but this was a dark time in AB's history. One that I was hoping wouldn't resurface, but something so big will always rise up to the top.

So, in the interest of trying to clear up what happened and why, here is the full story behind the events that led to the creation of the dissident forum.

Sebatianos was an idealist. He had some great ideas, and he was a very hard worker. Unfortunately, he also had a bad temper.

Combine that with a lot of server access and power, and you have a ticking timebomb. The real reason for the whole dissident issue was that Kosta and myself woke up one morning to discover that Seb had gone rogue on the server, and started to delete games, reviews, translations and more. Basically, he was cleaning out our database in a fit of rage, because he felt that he deserved more than he got.

We had to ban his access, ban his account, ban his IP, ban every access point he had, in order to save the site from being destroyed. Kosta and I were both completely in agreement that Seb had gone too far, and that we could not condone his actions. Where we differed was in how to pass judgement.

I felt that had this been anyone else, the person would've been banned on the spot for life. No questions asked. And as such, Sebatianos was no different. He had simply gone too far, and was a liability.

Kosta felt that Seb had done so much for the site, that he wanted to instead have him on a short leash, and remove him from the active community.

This formed the dissident forum, where Seb and anyone who wanted to be with him got access. This was an unmonitored forum, where Kosta would just push problematic members into, instead of having to deal with them.

Unfortunately, since none of us who knew what actually had happened were allowed to talk about it, Seb was creating his own stories about how he had been wronged. He eventually gained quite a following of other users, who all believed his side of the events. Eventually all of the negativity was too much to handle, and the community was split right down the middle.

Even the staff and admins were split. I felt that Kosta should never have created the dissidents, and that it just created more problems and more drama as the years passed by. As such, I had a hard time supporting my boss, as I did not personally believe that he had done the right thing. I felt like every day I was cleaning up a mess that would've been a non-issue if we had only banned Seb and come clean about his actions and why we had banned him as a result. Every day, the forum was littered with posts about how we had wrongfully treated him, and that the "truth" was for anyone to see in the dissident forum. It was almost like watching the start of a civil war, where both sides were recruiting soldiers.

Only a few people knew the truth, and we were not allowed to tell anything to anyone by Kosta. He tied our arms and sealed our lips, because in his mind, this was an issue that would simply pass over time. He expected Sebatianos to simply quit on his own, after being put on a leash. When this did not happen, he did not want to admit that he had been wrong, but instead decided to pretend all the new problems that arose as a result didn't exist.

Kosta was a great owner and leader, but in the later years he grew tired of the sites. AB and AR had been his hobby projects, and a way for him to learn and develop his coding skills. He did not want to get involved in big issues, or take any sides. He hated having to make executive decisions, and he hated having pressure put on him, or admit that he could be wrong in anything.

In the end, this led to him selling the site for money, leaving the community shocked and in disbelief. Very few people even knew that he had plans to sell the site out, and a lot of people (myself included) felt that he had basically sold us as well. We all worked tirelessly without pay for our common love of games, and now we had been sold to make money for an owner who just couldn't be bothered anymore. It was a hard blow for many of us.

When Studentis started plastering ads all over the site in order to create their own personal cashcow, that was the deciding moment that made me pack my bags and leave.

I hope this will help some of you understand why things happened and why. I will gladly answer any questions you have, in the hopes that maybe we can finally put all of this behind us and move on.
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:20 AM   #25
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Well no, Data wasn't banned, sorry for the misunderstanding. He left on his own, to the other forum Seb created (which I had a few visits to, back then), as far as I know - which is possibly not as much as some others do. I was a bit active at the Dissident sub-forum at that time... what followed, with the mentioned Seb-war, felt bit too weird for my taste, which is why I chose to remain with Abandonia and Fifth as the main admin back then. And I think personal issues Seb had in real life played some role in his actions, which does not justify what was going on, just making it maybe a bit comprehensible.
Anyway, sorry for bringing that old story up in the first place. Just some ancient memories brought up by seeing one of the oldest members of Abandonia back. What was past is past now.
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Old 05-03-2016, 01:02 AM   #26
Tom Henrik
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I could not agree more, Scatty.

There has definitely been a lot of ups and downs throughout Abandonia's history. I think that every community will have moments that they are not proud of, and moments they cherish. The whole dissident issue is without a doubt the darkest event.

However, I do also think that it helped many of us grow up really fast. We all learned a lot from the whole issue, and hopefully something like this will never happen again.

And, I understand why seeing my old face again would stir up some of those memories. I am just glad to be back, and to be a part of the community again. It makes me miss some of the good old days.
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Old 05-03-2016, 01:34 AM   #27
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I don't actually know at all why Data decided to leave definitely, but I wouldn't think it was mainly because of this. First of all as far as I knew he was responsible for a lot of the coding of the old website. I would understand if he got pissed when it was replaced by this Studentis version, speciallys since I think it was made without his involvent or at least decisions were taken against his advice.

Secondly it's normal for people to leave because of many reasons, no need to blame any of the drama... Tom did, Maikel, many other admins, Dave, others went lurking Titan, Horseman etc. and check back ever less frequently until they also stop doing it.

The last incident with Seb that got him finally banned permanently was kinda similar but he staged a coup by blocking access for other admins. In the end he and Romano must have realized that the coup was untenable, no idea what they discussed or negotiated with the admins, but gave up on the condition that they considered Dave more neutral than the older admins who had put up with shit before. That may have been so but Seb was this time banned as a matter of course.

I believe it was around this time that I became a little more involved and became updater. We brought back daily updates for a little while. TheChosen was very active at the time. Most of the time however I have never paid much attention or managed or cared to keep informed about the drama. I always enjoyed AB but not so much for even socializing as for playing games first, later discussing them, and later helping preserving them. This later part has become increasingly frustrating since the Studentis takeover.
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Old 05-03-2016, 02:16 AM   #28
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I am sure Data left for a number of reasons. While I do not know the specifics (as he left after I did), I do know that he had a lot of other items on his plate. It would make sense that with the change in ownership, combined with all the drama and everything else that happened on AB, that he would simple leave to focus on his other projects.

He, like Kosta, was a coder and a programmer first, and a community person second. So, if he felt like he didn't get to expand his coding skills, it makes sense that he would want to pursue it elsewhere.

@Japo
I completely agree that we need to preserve old video games, and this is already frustrating enough with large companies caring more about the name rights, than the games themselves, but when you add a different owner who doesn't share your views, then it becomes almost impossible. That is why I started my own site, in order to preserve as much about the games as possible. While I (for legal issues) can't offer every game for free download, I do try to do whatever I can to preserve the content, if not the actual game files. However, games that I get permission to host (like freeware), I do put up for free download for anyone to enjoy.
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Old 05-03-2016, 06:45 PM   #29
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Wow. Tom. Been ages since I last had seen you.
Probably was a mere user myself back when you stopped coming around.

Been Lurking myself for years now though.
However. Never removed the Abandonia Tab from my browser startup list.

Just got too busy with life and everything else really, while keeping an eye at this place.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:35 PM   #30
Tom Henrik
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Yeah, I think we all got caught up in real life events. I think there is a period where we all have to take a break and focus on something that will pay our bills, instead of pursuing a passion.

But yeah, I do remember you as just a user from back in the day. Funny to come back and see you as an Admin. You outrank me, right now.
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