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[carpetsmoker]

HTML isn't a programming language, it's a markup language, like SGML, XML ect.
HyperText Markup Language

[Reup]

XML is not a markup language. It's a data modelling language which you can use for markup.

[carpetsmoker]

XML:
eXtensible Markup Language

By the way, Eindhoven is a great city!

[Iowa]

...I give up...

[GrimFang4]

Perl definitely borrows too much from Awk and Sed. You can make your code look like nearly any other language, but that requires extra, normally unneccessary code lines. Passing arguments like other languages? You have to assign them to variables at the beginning of the function. Regular expressions? Powerful but disgusting. Switch statements? Don't get me started. It's just plain messy. That's why Perl is known as one of the most confusing languages to read after it's been written. Sure one can do almost anything in just one line of Perl, but if anyone wanted to change anything, then too bad. It gets ugly.

Java would be great if everyone in the world had high-speed internet access.

Iowa, if you're looking for a programming language, I strongly suggest Java if you want to write utilities and I suggest C++ if you want to write games. HTML won't get you into the world of other programmers, but it is nice to know. If you learn C++ first, it is very easy to learn Java. The syntax is nearly identical and Java just represents a higher abstraction of good C++ code. Java is newbie-friendly, but if you're serious about game dev, then you should be serious enough for the challenge of learning C++. If you PM me, I'll hook you up with some basics on either language.

[carpetsmoker]

There's nothing wrong with borrowing anything from either sed or awk, or any other program for that matter, as long as it adds something usefull.
That's opensource for you!

I'm not crazy...Everyone is hyping perl and I thought I was the only one to think that perl sucked...
Perl regexp's are one of the few things I actually do like in perl, sure, they can get hairy, sure, they can be hard to maintain, but it's very powerfull, and if you split everything up in multiple lines and add comments they can also be readable and maintanable...(then again, if the code was hard to write, it should be hard to read )

Java great?
I must admit don't have alot (actually none, apart from looking at it) programming experience with java, but this is due to my bad user experience with java.

It's slow for a starters, really, REALLY slow.
It's not available for all platforms, FreeBSD binairy's have only recently been released, and what about NetBSD? and a hunderd other platforms?
Also, it's OO, I know that OOP is being hyped by alot of people, but my experience is that it's only usefull in some rare circumtances, and slower in all circumstances.
I suppose I'm just not a OO kind of guy...

[Iowa]

Well, I appreciate your help GrimFang, but I already have my brother's college Java book. I'm sure I could learn all I needed from that if I were to start Java, but right now I get the feeling that if I learn a bit more HTML, it'll be easier...

[GrimFang4]

Oooh, don't rely solely on a textbook. That's what I've learned from my as yet 3 years of college. Which textbook is it? Most won't start off in a place where non-programmers can begin.

EDIT: Oh, and HTML won't make any programming language easier to use. You won't learn any programming concepts from HTML.

Carpetsmoker, I think that sometimes useful things can bog down an otherwise nice language. Ugly syntax from Awk and Sed make things worse for Perl developers and definitely for newbies. A language should not require you to separate things an extra amount and add extra comments to make anything readable.

As for Java, it is a little slow. I don't consider that a good reason to put it off though because 1) Every Java upgrade comes with a faster run-time environment, 2) Very few languages and almost no interpreted languages (like Perl) can match speed with C++ and that hasn't stopped great things from coming from each language, 3) Processor speeds have reached a level such that speed is not normally an issue unless you run stuff on old computers, and 4) Perfect speed doesn't matter very much if your application is not a video game.

I don't care much about portability, but I said that was a flaw of Java earlier. Maybe you don't understand fully what OOP is. OOP will be slower when running, but helps immensely when planning and writing a program. It can make deep concepts become intuitive. You said Java is an OO language, but all modern languages try to be. The point is that you don't have to use a complete OOP style to benefit from the inclusion of that ability in the language. Do you use objects? You had better!

[velik_m]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iowa @ Aug 14 2006, 03:44 AM) [snapback]248468[/snapback]</div>

I just use HTML, i'm too lazy/not committed enough to learn any other language. I want to learn Java, though...

My website is programmed in HTML
[/b]

you might read this webpage on webpage design.

Learning programming languages is not really that hard, just start simple and practice a lot. Java is great for beginners.

[Eagg]

I find it amusing that on some boards, this one included, people still argue about oop vs procedural programing.

With todays' complexity of the applications and especially games there is simply no point to compare those both forms with each other, it's not about better or worse, it's about possible or impossible.

GrimFang4, on what facts do you base your opinion that oop will run slower than procedural.
The compiling/linking part might be slower, but then you have native code and the CPU doesn't care how it got created, imho.

If you mean that framework languages run slower than native code, that's true.
But again, at some point and a given increase of application complexity there will be no choice but to switch almost completly to framework languages.

This is how all natural and non-natural things in our nice universe develop. They start out simple and efficient (better say become efficient over some time) and then the next things build on them and increase the complexity by abstraction. The higher the abstraction the lower the efficiency, but you couldn't care less since you have no choice.