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[swiss]

for everyone who still doesn't know exactly what Milosevic did take a look here!

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For all of you who are from Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, etc. did you actually be involved in the war? I mean were your cities/villages under enemy fire? Were you forced to leave your home or something? I am just asking for I just realize that that war on the Balkan isn't quite that far away for me now then it was in the 90s ... *shiver*

[Sebatianos]

Well, as I said before, I'm from Slovenia. There was only a 10 day war here. Slovenia got off extremely lucky. It is the only ex-Yugolsavian country that doesn't have a direct border with Serbia, thus when Croatia declared independence, the Serbian forces would have to cross Croatia (which was in war with them) to even come to Slovenia. The only anti-Sloven military force in Slovenia was the JLA (Yugslavian People's Army) and it was made of conscripts from all over Yugoslavia. These were generally boys between 18 and 22 who had no real idea what was going on. There were even many Slovenians among them who were at the time serving their army duty.

The only thing I personally felt was when a convoy of tanks went through our village (Ruše). There was a blocade on the bridge (3 trucks) but the drivers left keys inside, so the tank drivers simply got into the trucks and moved them out of the way. The last tank stayed behind, to ensure that the re-enforcements wouldn't be cut off. That tank was captured by the forces of Terithorial Defence (Slovene armed forces). The comander of that tank was from the neighbouring village (Selnica) so the officers on both sides knew each other very well, so after the news came the re-enfocements for the JLA were cut off and couldn't even leave there base, the tank crew surrendered without a bullet fired.

But there were some casualties on both sides (the number was under 100 including random people who were trapped in the country - like two Romanian truck drivers who were simply on their route to Austriy with their cargo and got in the line of fire when Yugoslav MIGs were attacking the boarder crossing Šentilj).

But later on we were hosting different refugees. Among them my cousing and her two children and my other cousin's wife and their two children. Both from Croatia. And later on there was a center in Ruše for refugees and there were a few Bosnian families (either Croat or Muslim).

So like I said - Slovenia got off lucky. Apart from the two air-raid alarms I personally heard and that tank incindent I heard from our family friends that lived just beside the bridge (haven't even seen it) I can say I haven't really felt the war.

[Tulac]

For people who want to discuss Balkans politics and don't know anything about it (which is obvious from their previous posts), I would ask them to be quite please...

A verdict from La Haya wouldn´t make change the minds of nobody because La Haya is the court of war winners.

This only proves his ingorance...

[chickenman]

Who? :P

Anyways I don't care if he is dead or not..

A 10 year trial :-/
No wonder he is dead, anyone would go mad waiting 10 years.

[gregor]

interesting. i saw a documentary on TV yesterday about Milosevic. his history before 1999.

He was a very cunning politician who was in every speach talking about peace, brotherhood and friendship and prosperity. in fact many times it was him who proposed peace and who made compromises for his peace deals (which they never respected). he did however incourage serbian nationalism.

"Niko ne smije da vas bije!" - Nobody is allowed to beat you! these were his words to Serbians portesting against Albanian violence against them. Many of you might not know but Kosovo did have majority of Albanians, but it wasn't so large that it is now when many Serbs fled. And in his agression on Kosovo Albanians he claimed that the Albanians want to clean the Kosovo (ethnically). which eventually actualyl really happened, because Serbs fled Kosovo after Nato bombings.

As far as Croatia goes, their only problem (IMO) was that they declared indepndance by overvoting the Serbs instead of a referendum. Basically the government decided for independence eventhought large parts of country were against it. Again it was easy for nationalists to come to the surface. and to help them build up against Croatia was (is) the flag who had conotations with history as well as with Ustase country (2nd WW, concentration camps for Serbs...).

And indeed it was not the Yugoslav army, but paramilitary units (hmm where did they get their heavy weapons...). So basically if he signed peace maybe the Yugoslav army was respecting it, but the paramilitary units weren't and again he is clean, "peacefull" man. i think he used deeply repressed emotions of nationalism and in fact encouraged it. and that's his main guilt. He never dirtied his hands. he was a cunning man pumping up the people with nationalism so he would get into power (at one point in time even with 104% of votes ).

If i may add the baricades in Slovenia were already set and another problem was that the army got blocvked in their barracs in many places. On the other hand intelligence provided by slovenian officers helped setting up ambushes so many convoys didn't make it to the border crossings.

who i would really love to see in the tribunal is Karadzic and Mladic. who didnt' just talk about nationalism, but also using it to justify the mass murders.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by swiss@Mar 12 2006, 04:37 AM
for everyone who still doesn't know exactly what Milosevic did take a look here!

---

For all of you who are from Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, etc. did you actually be involved in the war? I mean were your cities/villages under enemy fire? Were you forced to leave your home or something? I am just asking for I just realize that that war on the Balkan isn't quite that far away for me now then it was in the 90s ... *shiver*

I was in worst place to be in 1992 (I was 19-20 at the time). Place surrounded with Serbs, which did not have any defense, but still was bombed, people executed and forced to leave their homes. Later same year we become well known for what’s known as "Concentration Camps", in which I lost many friends and some family members. I was under house that has burned for about 24 hours, until they saw where we were hiding.

In October same year, 3000 of us from camps were transferred with IRC to Croatia, from where we were sent to third countries such as USA, Germany, England, etc. Some of us went back to fight, but most of us felt betrayed by our own government, and have left country.

I myself, similar to Seb have a lot nice memories from Yugoslavia times, but because of the war and Serb’s politics of 90s, I think that is the best to be separated. Even today, Serbs are still trying to stop any progress in Bosnia, and are trying to separate, taking large part of the country, and to make ‘Great Serbia”.

To add to Sebs post, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia declared independence, and we had worst war, as almost a third of population were Serbs.

I might write more about this later, but for know let’s say that I am unhappy that SM is dead. Reason is that each day of trial meant more info for others who were involved in their politics.

And small question for Gregor: “If Slobodan was for peace, why did he send paramilitary forces to Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?

Also, question for others from ex-YU: Have you seen video from Seselj’s trial, when he reads his letter to Judge? What kind of people were in Serb’s political scene in 90s, it is miracle we even survived….


EDIT: Also for Gregor: 'Niko ne smeje da vas bije' according to Milosevic he addressed to police force, who were beaten by angry Serbian masses. After what Serbian paramilitary has done in Kosovo, no wonder Serbs are leaving, as they are scared of retailiation from Albanians.

[Sebatianos]

Well, it's true Milošević was making big peace speaches when appearing in international media... That's why foregin politics believed that peace talks were possible with him. But he was a clear example of saying one thing and doing another.

As for Kosovo... The mistake was it didn't become a republic in the 60s. Unlike Vojvodina Kosovo only had a Serbian minority and the Albanian claims for a republic were just. That's when it all started going downhill. The question of Kosovo split the communist party. Different parties from different republics saw Kosovo very differently!

[Tulac]

Let's not forget that after all, people in Serbia were in the ned fed up with his tyranny, and have ended his reign with a revolution...
Now if even his people have dismissed him (well the majority that is) it is obvious that he was a good man, or had anything decent within him...
From what I've heard (from Serbians that is) is that he and his fellow war criminals have the biggest support in RS (Serbian part of Bosnia)...

[gregor]

No wonder. he was the one basically telling them they can have and do whatever they want.

has anyone noticed somewhat similar words used by current Iranian president?

I think maybe if Slobo wasn't such a smeghead we might still be living in the same country. for long time even in Slovenia many people didn't believe in separation. only until some acts the Serbian forces commited they were persuaded this is not the country we want to live in.

also i think those words were addressed at the people not police.

and to answer the question. i don't think he was really for peace, but he was saying that. all in all he was either a big liar or was living in some fanatsy world of his own. but his supporters whome he helped with institutions - they were the ones who did the dirty things. usually in the name of nation. bloody idiots!!! :angry:

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by gregor@Mar 13 2006, 08:31 AM
also i think those words were addressed at the people not police.

Ah, the "Niko ne smije da vas bije" speach on the meeting in Priština right?

Yes, that was addressed to people - that no-one should beat them up. But it was meant that Albanians (in clear majority) were not allowed to beat Serbs (all perfectly normal, a majority shouldn't mistreat a minorty). But the problem was much deeper then simply some vilence between nations in Kosovo. Does anyone still remember the hunger strike of the miner in Trebča (BTW in Trebča the best bateries I ever had were made - both for cars and house appliances).