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[faralar]

Due to a lot of not so nice relpies from some of the abandonia regulars to new people asking about things (mostly in the request section) there has been a short discussion about how the people here treat so called "noobs".

I have been frequenting abandonia and the forums for little over a year now (although I don't write as much as I should) and I can see a obvoius trend. Some om the admins/regulars are great, they reply in a nice and informative way and try to show some patience with the fact that not everyone knows the rules and such about abandonware.

However this topic is going to deal with the others, the ones who don't behave. There is quite a few people who seem to think that this is some exclusive club and that if you're not a "vip" it gives them the right to be jerks to you. I don't think that this is isolated to just a handful of people beacause the most usual critique I hear against abandonia is that it is "a great site but the people who run the forums are idiots".

To take two examples (which have been brought to my attention by friends) there is one guy whose signature is the guy from castelvania throing knives at the word "N00bs", while this is probably meant as a joke, many don't take it that way. Another thing is The fifth horseman, I know I shouldn't be naming but this seems to be the only thing the guy does. Go to the request section and look at this guys replies, there are so many cases of noob bashing when he could just as easily have said the same thing in a nice way.

If anyone feels that they agree with me and have been treated in a simmilar way or if anyone has a problem with what I'm saying, please write. This is an important matter and it needs adressing.

[The Fifth Horseman]

The problem with most noobs I encountered so far is that they don't understand until you hit them with a brick.

If you think I'm acting too harshly - well, feel free to ask Kosta to make you a moderator of the same forums I currently take care of. I'll be more then happy to be able to take a short break from watching that area.
Maybe several months of having to reply to an average of four noobs per day will make you understand. That coupled with removing posts from those far-less-then-polite ones at a similar rate.

As far as you might think I do nothing but flame noobs, it would be wise to check it via making a search - which gives a somewhat different result. Or better through all the posts I made so far.

There is quite a few people who seem to think that this is some exclusive club and that if you're not a "vip" it gives them the right to be jerks to you.[/b]

Being a VIP does not give anyone the right to be a jerk.
Similarily, being a newbie does not make anyone a noob - except many of them seem to be quite bent on it.
And if you ask - the difference between newbie and noob is like that: newbie is polite and wants to improve, while noob is simply blunt and ignorant - often also quite rude.

While the line seems to be quite fine, there is some difference between how do they act on the forums. The following two situations present reactions of three types of new users - proper newbie, usual noob and 1337 N00B.

Situation 1, new user downloads the game and is unable to run it:

Originally posted by newbie+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(newbie)</div>

Situation 2, new user wants to download the game and finds it ESA-protected:
<!--QuoteBegin-newbie
Hi, I wanted to download this game from your site... but it seems I cannot. What does this "ESA" thing mean, and why is it in the place of download button?

Originally posted by n00b+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n00b)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-1337 n00b
WTF IS ESA!??!?!?!?!?!?!? GIMME DWNLOAD!!!!!!! NOWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm certain you see the difference between each of these example posts, and can predict what sort of replies each of them will attract. When one asks politely, the answers are going to be polite as well. When he shows rude ignorance, he will most likely be referred to "read the FAQS" or receive a similar "been asked before, stop wasting our time" kind of response. When he's rude on the top of that, the replies are going to be filled with torches and pitchforks.

[plague]

Try to guide them to the right path, and some day they might be well behaving and active members (we haven't got too much of them). Giving a finger doesn't help a bit. It seems we already have earned some bad reputation and bad reputation doesn't attract people.

The problem with most noobs I encountered so far is that they don't understand until you hit them with a brick.[/b]

Unfortunately, that is also true. But be patient.

[Quintopotere]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Jul 31 2006, 09:39 AM) [snapback]246045[/snapback]</div>

The problem with most noobs I encountered so far is that they don't understand until you hit them with a brick.

If you think I'm acting too harshly - well, feel free to ask Kosta to make you a moderator of the same forums I currently take care of. I'll be more then happy to be able to take a short break from watching that area.
Maybe several months of having to reply to an average of four noobs per day will make you understand.
[/b]

Well, there are a bunch of n00b around our site waiting an excuse to send annoying unuseful questions, so I understand what you mean... but being kind even with the stupids should be a good rule of the good guys like us...

Maybe you should just wait some hours before replying them, and someone (before you) will reply gently even to a stupid question

[The Fifth Horseman]

Maybe you should just wait some hours before replying them[/b]

Easy for you to say. You don't have an obsessive/compulsive personality type.

[Grinder]

If somebody tried this, it would make me look stupid, but why don't you just lock topics everytime you see any of these and worry about replying after that?

[guesst]

[sarcasm]So what we need now is a moderator for the moderators to be sure their responces are moderate towards noobs.[/sarcasm]

Kind words are a good way for a person, personally, to avoid becomming bitter and angry at everything, regardless of what happens. Like Steven Covey says, between action and reaction there is a space granted than man can choose his responce. The time it takes to type a responce is that space in the forums. And it is a good idea for each one of us individually to practice tact and courtesy. It will make us better people in the forums and in life.

I was a noob once. We all were. I've even been noob bashed out of a forum or two, and was grateful. If that forum is not the sort of place for me, I'm glad I'm not there. But if the forum has some sort of draw to me that nowhere else offers, like I feel this forum does, then I find a reason to work through the crass remarks and stay.

I can't comment on how things used to be, all I know is there's a special corner of Abandonia dedicated to those who got tired of how things are (dissidents), so you'll have a hard time convincing me that the examples of rudeness you site are a new development. I'll agree that some noobs deserve more respect than they get, but some get more than they deserve. In my opinion, whether human courtesy is extended or not has very little to do with the potential long term staying power of that person. Anyone who comes to this site, drops an inappropate post without even glancing at the myriad of "Read this first..." sticky topics, and asks for something we can't give them in the first place is a noob that deserves to have daggers thrown at them. A kind word, while preferable on the human level, isn't going to affect their longivity because the answer, in the end, is "Sorry, we can't help you." Not alot of incentive to stick around.

Maybe we need to have a pre-canned responce so that whever a moderator is temped to light a fire under a noob he can just copy and paste in a more tactfully written responce. I suggest the following. For inappropiate (ESA or other) games:

We'd like to help you, but what you're asking for is not something we can provide either because the ESA keeps it protected or it is still sold somewhere. In the future, Abandonware maintains a searchable list of software titles that you can check ESA status on many game, and google will often lead you to retailers who will happily and legally allow you to aquire what you're looking for.

We hope you like the site and look forward to getting to know you better![/b]

If they are asking for DOSBox related questions

Owing to changes in the XP core, many old PC games no longer run on newer machines. This can be solved by using and aquainting yourself better with a great program called DOSBox. It is designed to run most of the games that can be found on Abandonia. And while I know it may be hard to find, Abandonia acutally maintains a guide to get started on DOSBox here. The DOSBox website also maintains an FAQ here

We hope you like the site and look forward to getting to know you better![/b]

And if they ask anything else

Shut up you stupid noob! Why don't you crawl back into the hole that spawned you!

We hope you like the site and look forward to getting to know you better![/b]

Hmmm, somewhere there at the end I forgot to turn the sarcasm block back on.

[faralar]

To fifth horseman: I can understand that you get tired of people being rude, but you often overreact. One example:

Malachai asks: "Does anyone know where i can download Premier Manager then please?" after finding out that you do'nt have the game, your response is to give him a link to a site that says:

"Someone thinks you are an idiot because you were too stupid to check Google before asking a question. They gave you a link to this site as a joke. The fact that you followed it pretty much proves the point."

Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just tell him "sorry, but you'll have to look for it yourself".

To everyone: The bottom line is that this site needs the new people to survive, everyone who has ever had a job in a store or anyhting knows that sometimes you have to restrain yourself and be polite even though you hate it.

And if somebody's being rude, just don't f***cking reply

[guesst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(faralar @ Jul 31 2006, 08:55 PM) [snapback]246158[/snapback]</div>

And if somebody's being rude, just don't f***cking reply
[/b]

That was rude. And unclear. Does that mean we don't respond to rude people or don't respond rudely to people.

I think you probably meant to say "If you can't say nuthin nice, don't say nuthin at all." (Heh, countered an f-bomb with Disney.)

[The Fifth Horseman]

Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just tell him "sorry, but you'll have to look for it yourself".[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Jul 28 2006, 11:27 AM) [snapback]245613[/snapback]</div>

Sure. Except you have to find out yourself.
[/b]

So I pretty much said that.

Had he used Google before, he'd find out that Premier Manager is not available anywhere for download.