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[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by Taskmaster@Nov 26 2005, 12:59 AM
Anyway, if you look at the pedestal first, then take the stone, etc. then it will work.* I will, of couruse, correct the rock issue.

Sorry, didn't mean to criticise you there. It's just that not everybody will think as straightforward as you do when you're coding it.

About looking at the pedestal, when I do that, I only get the description of the pedestal itself ("The waist-high pedestal is ornately carved, etc"), but nothing about the stone. I can't pick it up either, which I suppose means that the game still thinks I haven't noticed it yet.

When you encounter and issue such as the smash thing, save the trace log so I can reproduce the issue easier.* If you can give me a bit more detail as to what you did it will help.

All I did was to walk to the area with the hive and type SMASH HIVE. This results in the message "You tear open the fragile skin of the bee hive, exposing the golden liquid inside. You eat severalmouthfuls of the delicious wild honey. Mmmm... That's some good stuff!" (by the way, there should be a space between "several" and "mouthfuls"). The line in the upper screen changes to "You see nothing of interest at this time", but the description of the hive is still there, and it remains there even if you exit and re-enter the place. (That thing about the hive still being present in the description also happens when you pick up the hive after scaring away the bees.

About listing the commands, I think that would make the game too easy (for example by telling you that you need to DIG or CARVE at some point).

Another thing: don't you think GRAB VINE should have the same effect as SWING VINE? At the moment it has no effect. The bit where you need to make the canoe is also a bit tricky; I'd say this is one of the few cases in which you might allow the boring old USE command. It took me quite a while to come up with CHOP - and I didn't expect it to result in a boat.

Oh, and are you planning some sort of interaction with the fireplace or is it just a flavouring element?

[Taskmaster]

No need to apologize. I don't take anything personal about the game. I understand you are just telling me what you did and what the game didn't do.

So SMASH HIVE is broken. It was not checking where or not the hive was still in the tree, it just allowed you to smash it if it was in the room. I have fixed it on my end, but will not be able to put the game out until Monday (I develop it on a laptop and the disk drive is at the office, and my network hub is not plugged in).

I have added KNOCK DOWN HIVE as well. I did not add SWAP (REPLACE, TRADE, EXCHANGE, CHANGE) yet, but I will get to it.

I fixed the PUT ROCK ON PEDESTAL to not allow it if the stone is still on it and vice versa. If you LOOK AT PEDESTAL you get a different answer than if you LOOK ON PEDESTAL.

As for GRAB VINE, that really isn't the same thing. Grab is treated as GET, but I think I make reference to Tarzan if you mess with the vine trying to climb it or such, so I think SWING is OK. Jump on vine works also I think.

On LIGHT, it was checking for LIGHT FIRE, then it would tell you to use BURN X or SET FIRE TO X. I corrected this so if you try LIGHT X it will tell you. Technically you can not LIGHT MAT, but you can LIGHT LIGHTER.

I am trying to draw the fine line between making it too easy and too hard. I just want it to be fun. I'm not out to set up a pay hint line!

As for the canoe I'm not sure exactly what you mean. The game allows for MAKE, BUILD, CARVE, CHOP, CUT, and maybe more. I tried to give some hints there also, and you can always type HINT, HELP or PRAY for a little extra hint in some places.

Please feel free to suggest anything, and do not feel I am not open to it, because I am. I appreciate the help and would not be ungrateful about it!

[A. J. Raffles]

Look on pedestal? It never occurred to me that could yield a different description. I mean, if you look at the pedestal, wouldn't you also notice there was something lying on top of it? I would certainly have expected EXAMINE PEDESTAL to tell me at least that there was some object lying on top of it, even if it didn't specify what it was exactly... Have you also fixed that bug about making the stone magically appear (PUT STONE ON PEDESTAL before you have discovered, much less taken, it) or do you not expect that anyone will try that?
Another minor thing I noticed is that the elevator at the hotel is a bit strange: to go up you have to press the button, but if you leave the hotel and then leave the elevator without pressing any buttons, you'll be on the ground floor again.

By the way don't pay too much attention to my comments regarding commands. I'm theoretically old enough to have played text adventures, but at the time when my friends were playing them, I didn't even have a computer (didn't get one until I was thirteen, in fact).

[Taskmaster]

You also get a different response if you LOOK AT SINK vs. LOOK IN SINK, just as IF you LOOK AT DRESSER instead of LOOK IN DRESSER, so it is consistent. Of course, you can SEARCH DRESSER OR SEARCH PEDESTAL which ast like a LOOK IN/ON I guess.

Yes, I fixed the ROCK/STONE thing so you get a clue as to why you can't put the rock yet.

I have updated the betatest page now and the updated version is ready. Please download that when you have time. Please retest some of the bugs to ensure I have indeed corrected them.

As for the elevator, if I am understanding you correctly, you go upstairs, then EXIT HOTEL, but not using the elevator. This should not work, obviously, so I will check on it. Thanks for letting me know.

[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by Taskmaster@Nov 28 2005, 01:15 PM
As for the elevator, if I am understanding you correctly, you go upstairs, then EXIT HOTEL, but not using the elevator.* This should not work, obviously, so I will check on it.* Thanks for letting me know.

Not quite. To get to your room you
1. ENTER HOTEL
2. ENTER ELEVATOR
3. PUSH BUTTON.

To go downstairs again, you can either
1. GO WEST
2. PUSH BUTTON
in which case you'll find yourself in the lobby, outside the elevator after getting the message "You press the lobby button and ride the elevator down. You step out of the elevator and into the spacious lobby."

or

1. GO WEST
2. GO WEST (inside the elevator, that is)
in which case you'll "take a leisurely walk to the west" and end up at the lobby as well, which clearly doesn't make sense.

About the sink, I'm prette sure I found the key by typing LOOK AT SINK rather than LOOK IN SINK, but I'll have to check it again.
Edit: Don't you think it's a bit odd that LOOK AT SINK will let you find the key whereas LOOK IN SINK won't? I mean, the key is in the sink, isn't it?

About the new version, you can still make the stone appear by typing PUT STONE ON PEDESTAL before you've actually discovered it. The room description for the room with the hive still doesn't fit after you've taken away the hive. I'm referring to the "The non-climbable tree seems to be home to a large swarm of bees that are buzzing all around the tree, and a large hole in the side. You also notice a bee hive hanging from one of the remaining tree branches." bit, which is still there in the room description, even after you've driven away the bees and taken the hive. Theoretically you'd need two alternative room descriptions, one after you've driven away the bees (in which case you'd scrap the first sentence I quoted) and another one after you've taken the hive (scrap the second one as well).
The LIGHT MAT and SMASH hive thing is fixed now, so that's fine.
A few more points: it would be a nice touch if the game recognised the commands POINT GUN AT ELMO / PREACHER / DOORMAN and BUY ATARI (at the pawnshop, obviously). Inside the cage you might consider adding HOP as a substitute for JUMP.
SMASH HIVE in front of the bear should provoke some sort of reaction. I mean, the bear is hardly going to let you eat the honey all by yourself, right?
THROW ROCK THROUGH HOLE in the room with the pedestal is another way of putting yourself in a situation in which you can't win, so maybe you should add some sort of death message after the "you wonder whether you needed it at all" bit. For example you could have the rock fall back through the hole again and knock you over the head, cracking your skull open.:P

[Taskmaster]

1. GO WEST
2. GO WEST (inside the elevator, that is)
in which case you'll "take a leisurely walk to the west" and end up at the lobby as well, which clearly doesn't make sense.

I'll fix this. In the original game the elevator simply crashed when you used it and there was no "room" you could get to. When I changed it I must have missed this. Good find!

About the sink, I'm prette sure I found the key by typing LOOK AT SINK rather than LOOK IN SINK, but I'll have to check it again.
Edit: Don't you think it's a bit odd that LOOK AT SINK will let you find the key whereas LOOK IN SINK won't? I mean, the key is in the sink, isn't it?

I checked my code and I allow the key to be found by simply examining the SINK, whether you say LOOK SINK, LOOK AT SINK, LOOK IN SINK, LOOK UNDER SINK, etc. I guess that means I should make the pedestal work the same way. It would eliminate some confusion it seems.

A few more points: it would be a nice touch if the game recognised the commands POINT GUN AT ELMO / PREACHER / DOORMAN and BUY ATARI (at the pawnshop, obviously). Inside the cage you might consider adding HOP as a substitute for JUMP.

The gun is not really the focus of the game, and honestly I do not want to encourage using it all. In my original game it was there as a puzzle to stop you in the airport. If you did not drop it before the metal detector you went to jail. I decided to change that into what is there now (i.e. sell it).

I could spend another year adding all the things that some one could do, but I am trying to concentrate on the actions necessary to complete the game. There will be limitations, but that is an accepted and expected side-effect of text adventure games.

I appreciate the ideas, and I'm not being rude, just letting you in on my thinking.

[A. J. Raffles]

Fair enough. It's your game, obviously, so you should know best what you want it to be like. I'm only making suggestions, you know. But if you don't want people to try and be violent with that gun, maybe you should change it into something else... Although I really like the idea about the metal detector at the airport, actually.
You're right about the sink, by the way. I must have done something wrong when I tested it.:crazy:

[Taskmaster]

OK, I'm a bit busy at work at the moment - don't you hate that - so it will probably be the weekend when I get to do anything else. I did fix the elevator issue. EXIT ELEVATOR was not taking into account where the elevator was (up or down) and just letting you exit to the lobby.

The Go West issue you found is also included in the fixes.

I will make LOOK (AT/ON) PEDESTAL all work the same and show the stone as being there. That should clear up some of the issues.

I also changed the "bee hive" room text to clear up the issue of the bee around the tree vs. the hive.


It seems that you are the only one left testing, so I appreciate that.

[Taskmaster]

Verion 0.31 is available for downloading and testing, if you are still interested. The website listed the changes included in this version.

If you don't mind, I'd at least like for you to complete the entire game one time, just to ensure the game actually let's you win correctly. It works for me, but as I lamented previously, I know what is expected and it makes my testing less reliable at finding bugs!

Thanks!

[A. J. Raffles]

Well, I sort of know what's expected as well by now... :whistle:

Anyway, winning seems to work fine as ever (was there anything flawed about it?), but I've noticed another bug: as you can see from the attached log file, I was able to complete the game without ever getting the rock. Looks like there's some sort of check missing as to whether you actually have the rock when you type PUT ROCK ON PEDESTAL.