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[yoga]

Originally Posted by twillight

This is of course not the final stats/equipment, but at least I have Carsomyr:

stats at lvl 31

NOTE: I noticed the Ring of Gaxxes "fell" down, so the magic resist is improper. That's 70% (had to re-apply the rings and nwit is correct at me).
Actually the net called my attention that with Carsomyr (50% MR), HumanFlesh (20%), Amulet of the Seldarine (10%), Ring ofGaxx (10%), Tear of Bhaal (10%) it is actually possible to reach 100% MR.

TY.

Very nice protectons.

I have new Q:

- I dunno what AC for weapons is good?
Positive or negative?

When evaluate weapon, what factor is more important?
THACO OR DAMAGE?

TY for Yr time.

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

TY.

Very nice protectons.

I have new Q:

- I dunno what AC for weapons is good?
Positive or negative?

When evaluate weapon, what factor is more important?
THACO OR DAMAGE?

TY for Yr time.

AC is related to the term THAC0.
THAC0 means "to hit Armor Class 0". So the lower your AC the better. But the BG-trilogy has the minimum AC of -20, so anything beyond (under) that is obsolate. This is where Blade's Defensive Spin start to be diminished by time: with better equipment your AC will improve, and the DS-bonus start to disappear. Not to mention after a point everything will hit you regardless of AC. But it can be darn convenient for sure until that.
This can easily be checked by wearing armor compared to not wearing armor.

---

On weapons: your final damage actually is what determines the usefulness of a weapon. With that aside most of your damage will come from stat bonuses and abilities, and the weapon classes don't actually differ too much from each other by basic damage. For example while one will do D6 damage the other D10 - that's 2 damage difference in general. When you hit 50, that's hardly noticeable.
And BG don't determine damage amplifying the weapon's base damage, like adding multipliers to it. Better weapons simply get +X damage, not +X%damage.
Also, most weapons gain the same amount of bonuses at every stat (thac0 and damage bonus), so there's not that hugh variation there-

So to answer the question thac0 is the prime factor to decide on a weapon, especially as 99% of times the bonus thac0 determines the enchantment-level of the item too, which determines what you can actually hit.
For example if there'd be a 1st level enchanted weapon (+1 thac0) with +100 damage, people still rarely would have it, simply because even a mid-level monster requires 3rd lvl enchantment (+3 thac0) to wound it at all. So a +3 thac0 +3 damage weapon will likely be preferred over a +1 thac0 +100 damage weapon because of that. (Sometimes +X thac0 and enchantment-level is different, eg. Staff of the Magi has 5th lvl enchantment, but gives only +1 thac0.)

Thac0-bonus also helps to hit the monster in the sense of armor class level, so again that's preferable.

Actually damage most of the time comes only as THIRD when deciding weapon, as usually it is more important what extra ability the weapon gives than its pure damage (resistance, immunity, extra attack, extra elemental damage can highly evaluate a weapon).

--------------

With all that there's no "good AC". While Armor Class value helps you to survive, it NEVER guarantees survival. In AD&D you have to focus on destroying the opponent before it destroys you.
Eg. both my barb and bard used Aegis Hide for a long time. While the barbarian could destroy things without problem in it, the bard suffered with the same AC.
On the other hand when you can rely on your Bag of Tricks, bard can be safer and faster than the barbarian. Yes, a bar can kill a dragon in hand-to-hand, but with enough level behind it, bard simply lays down a couple of traps, and dragon dies before the battle even started.
The problem is, when you CAN'T fall back on tricks&treat, like that bloody no-magic zone in Watcher's Keep lvl3. Not to mention I don't really have any idea either how to face the tanarri horde at the same level.

[twillight]

So, the "infamous" Watcher's Keep, which I at times confuse with WorldStone Keep, but that's another game.

To win at the AR3004 no-magic zone I put up the Shadow Dragon Scale (the cornugons actually cause acid-bleeding or what), and ran back, so only 2 demons jumped at me. What a relief.
Sent one away by Ring of Ram, which only turned out a temporary solution, but at least caused some damage.
The weapon was more interesting. You remember the Staff of Striking you never end up using? I took use of them, and even realised they only use up charges on hits which actually land. Good. Also, innate abilities don't disappear, so Defensive Spin worked. That's one room down.

I wanted rooms clean to delay the big encounter, so here are some tips for the wild rooms:
- do not dare the quazit-room without some serious magic resist. That's just insane that room. You'll also need boots of speed, because the little #@& like to go invisible and your chance is to run always to the nearest visible. Your job can be immensly helped is "gate: summon demon" surge happens (the demon can decimate them. Oh, you need protection from evil running!)
- the thiefling-room is the other way around. You have to focus destroying them one-by-one. Laying down traps is a VERY good idea in groups of two (we're talking about Spike Traps of course). For reasons wild surge don't apply to setting traps, but apply to innate abilities which are otherwise exist as spells too (I suspect lazy programming).
Both times the biggest threat is some 'instant" death condition to happen (charm, stun, hold person).

AR3010: this is the room leading to the baatezu group, so they must die.
This is quit a creative room. The two glaberzu can not see the invisible (mislead), but they asap start happily summoning things like no tomorrow. Both can summon up 3 fire elemental, 3 ice salamander which all just lub roaming around (so your mislead is not safe), and they also summon up some mini-cloudkills (big deal, ring of kangaxx negates them), just to finally rise fire shield. They also have like 4 attack per round.
So instead of jumping in with cover of invisibility, go to the bottom left gate, and peak out until ONE of them starts a spell. Then fall back and lure the thing on you. Do this until they run out (for a while I thought this summoning is innate and started panic, lol).
To kill them cast Improved Haste (from ring of gaxx). They die for only a handful of strikes (don't fight both at once though).

AR3013, the group of demons led by a "slayer":
So, they are massive and ugly. They even respawn as it turned out until the leader is killed.
You'll need a great deal of preparation for this. First the buffs: stoneskin, MMM, blur, mirror image, fireshield (blue), protection from acid.
The strategy is to make 3 Death Fog running - let's hope they won't cause casting interrupted. You need Vecna's Robe, Boots of Speed, Harper's Pin (or other source of immunity to lightning. Resistance to fire can also help), possibly Cloak of Displacement. Heck, could turn out a Globe of Invulnerability could serve great.

IMPORTANT: Do NOT try to cast more than 3 Death Fog! The game will overload and crash!

Yep, I chose Magic Flute as ability. Bard don't have too many options to chose from. Aside the spike traps, and the forgettable time stop trap/explosion traps there is evasion and avoid death - both joke-skills wilh tiny duration. The make potion/scroll option are totally pathetic.
And while Delayed Blast Fireball is worse than death, globe of invulnerability and resist fear are two spells I neglect (and regret for neglecting) to memorize. So for me it worth a pick. Darn, I can go further!

--------

I was right: it is URBAN LEGEND that you can steal the Deck of Many Things. You can not. You do need 150% pickpocket to steal from the cambion, but that only gives 2 unenchanted necklaces.
Killing the group is not that hard with some well-placed traps and the usual method. If you can though, steal from the minions, as they have super healing potions.

I'd also like to see for actually happen that every class' every kit (if necessary) draws from the Deck of Many Things.
I'm aware most people won't bother reloading for it, but darn, that plus statpoint is though.
Now it revealed that Blade gains Strength from it.

------------

dragon at WK lvl 4:
it is well designed. If a summon is nextto it it'll attack it despite being neutral, and if you lay a trap it becomes agressive.
But - as always - there's a loophole: cast mislead at the entrance, then you can lay as many traps as you want. As the #&@ dragon like to cast Heal this is very convenient.

NOTE: the dragon does not notice the efreeti from the bottle (not tried spell version).

NOTE on Machine Lum (strangely alliterates to Asylum, non?):
Carsomyr gives the 50% MR taking in consideration the 5% MR from the device.

[yoga]

Tnanks mate.

-- I finished quest to find both hearths - of Yaga Shura and his adopted mother Naylee.
First one in Marching Mountains
Second - in the same place.

I returned both to Naylee in Forest of Mir - The temple and she...!..

tried to kill me.

But brave was winner.

-- After this deep analys of THAC0, AC and Damage i will stop for a moment to analyse my equipment after twillight instruction.

Then i will post all data for all 6 members.

Once again my location:
-Forest of Mir - The temple
All members are OK but i have big trouble with dangerous traps in
MM.
The monsters are not easy, no, no, not of all.

In the beginning of the game i thought:
- Poor enemies! The have no option to stop battle and recover.
I have. This is not good act.
But now i change my opinion.

[yoga]

Originally Posted by yoga

Tnanks mate.

-- I finished quest to find both hearths - of Yaga Shura and his adopted mother Naylee.
First one in Marching Mountains
Second - in the same place.

I returned both to Naylee in Forest of Mir - The temple and she...!..

tried to kill me.

But brave was winner.

-- After this deep analys of THAC0, AC and Damage i will stop for a moment to analyse my equipment after twillight instruction.

Then i will post all data for all 6 members.

Once again my location:
-Forest of Mir - The temple
All members are OK but i have big trouble with dangerous traps in
MM.
The monsters are not easy, no, no, not of all.

In the beginning of the game i thought:
- Poor enemies! The have no option to stop battle and recover.
I have. This is not good act.
But now i change my opinion.

KMonster - Fighter - Level 16

Imoen - Mage/Thief - L 18/17

Minsc - Ranger - L 18

Janeira - Fighter/Druid - L 14/14

Aerie - Cleric/Mage - L 15.14

Korgan - Berserk - L 20

[twillight]

The longest (and only unimaginative) part of lvl 5:

corpseheap

Just a question for the above: anyone seriously thought after fighting THREE liches at the SAME TIME, some single mages will pause a problem? (although the 3rd one can be tricky with its many summons)
The hardest fight is the beholders, where the #&@ Hive Mother with its many heals is hard to kill before it casts imprisonment that catch you.

NOTE: Bala's Axe is a crappy weapon. It is NOT unenchanted, it does NOT work if the enemy has Stone Skin (and afteryou make it srop they're usually out of spells anyway), and is in every sense a weapon I did not use, and will not use. I'm actually sorry for it, as it in theory had so much potential

Minor thing: lvl 5 has no container with easy access at least. So I caught myself running between lvl 4 and 5. Oh well.

lich/flaming skulls seal: doing it for the serpent staff keeping in mind Ravager. The lich likes to Maze you which is just stupid, and somehow pierces magic resist (or I'm just plain unlucky), so kill it with trap. To dispose the skulls wear boots of speed and lead them to a wall where they can't back further.

finalseal: doing it for Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization.
Optional goals can be the Wish scroll and the Taralash Bow. Lay traps accordingly, buff yourself for survival, open the seal, grab the loot, and leave. Hail to the Powergamer!

NOTE: with the GoES extra 0.5 attack the Boots of Speed started to give its extra 0.5 attack too.

------------

Underdark:
While the Beholder City still not plays (offers nothing but experience, and we're capped already), there are some things to do here:
- you can pickpocket the Sun Gem to get access to the dragon. This was the dragon won't be mad at you (like that'd effect anything), and kills all the gnomes in their city. And that dragon is supposed to be good. Entrap the area now, so you won't have to do it later.
- cast freedom and deal with the elemental gates. The loot is optional of course, but why not have it.
NOTE: the guy for me when coming Near Death eject a Mislead, casts a Shadow Door (and time stop and gate), and disappears for good. The only way I could prevent this behaviour was to set traps.
- in Usth Natha you can do the lich-quest for some rare spells, including Spook. Like you'd care. Still, I like my collection of spells in their fullest.
Question: Uhm, anyone knows why bard is allowed to learn spells above slvl 6? I mean bard won't be able to cast 'em...
- you still must do the "kill the local cult" thing and the illithid city is still rewarding.
- if you want the Crom Fayer you'll have to deal with the Demogorgon Statue.

NOTE: I wondered when the lich-quest will be available, and gave a thought as it did not start at the moment what the tavern actually offers. I mean aside the duels. I'm not sure when I was last at the upper floor, band it is largely of uninterest, but as a minor topic the same-sex courtisan DOES offers sex if asked for, albeit "the last guest just left, come back later" of course. But this does not change the subject that at least in theory they ARE OPEN to the subject.

ITEM NOTE: Don't forget to buy in Usth Natha the staff of Earth and Rod of Smiting.

WEAPON PROFICIENCIES:
good proficiencies for bard/blade are:
- quarterstaff
- two handed sword
- halberd
- two handed weapon style (because of all the above)

ranged choice:
- longbow (more damage, nice weapons)

onehanded options:
- warhammer: crom fayer if you can assemble it is a nice slow weapon. Does hits.
- axes: axe of the unyielding has a nice vorpal effect. If it'll work on Fire Giants, that'll be cumbaya.
- longsword: The Answerer can help out IF the debuff it cause has no duration. I have no info on the question. Well, noone plays bard, so that might be the reason.

spending extra points:
- 3 point in double wield. It is entirely possible I'll never use this, but where else to spend the points? The only problem is, all in this list are 1 point more than the bard can actually spend. But I'd use first and Answerer uneducated in longsword than without the style-bonus. Of course this is just my ad-hoc preference, no deep analysis behind it.

[yoga]

Originally Posted by twillight

The longest (and only unimaginative) part of lvl 5:

corpseheap

Just a question for the above: anyone seriously thought after fighting THREE liches at the SAME TIME, some single mages will pause a problem? (although the 3rd one can be tricky with its many summons)

NOTE: Bala's Axe is a crappy weapon. It is NOT unenchanted, it does NOT work if the enemy has Stone Skin (and afteryou make it srop they're usually out of spells anyway), and is in every sense a weapon I did not use, and will not use. I'm actually sorry for it, as it in theory had so much potential

Minor thing: lvl 5 has no container with easy access at least. So I caught myself running between lvl 4 and 5. Oh well.

WEAPON PROFICIENCIES:
good proficiencies for bard/blade are:
- quarterstaff
- two handed sword
- halberd
- two handed weapon style (because of all the above)

ranged choice:
- longbow (more damage, nice weapons)

onehanded options:
- warhammer: crom fayer if you can assemble it is a nice slow weapon. Does hits.
- axes: axe of the unyielding has a nice vorpal effect. If it'll work on Fire Giants, that'll be cumbaya.
- longsword: The Answerer can help out IF the debuff it cause has no duration. I have no info on the question. Well, noone plays bard, so that might be the reason.

spending extra points:
- 3 point in double wield. It is entirely possible I'll never use this, but where else to spend the points? The only problem is, all in this list are 1 point more than the bard can actually spend. But I'd use first and Answerer uneducated in longsword than without the style-bonus. Of course this is just my ad-hoc preference, no deep analysis behind it.

Wow!!

If i am not wrong You killed alone about 15-25 monsters!?

Can not believe..

Only very good Master with excellent equipment can do that..
and courage..

No, no i am sure i never will do such a heroic deed.

Only crazy and genius is able to performe such an action.
Better to be silent..

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

Wow!!

If i am not wrong You killed alone about 15-25 monsters!?

Can not believe..

That's the result of a whole ~quest.
It goes this way: there's 4 button. Each has to be pushed 4 times. 3 of 4 buttons summon up 4 monsters each time to beat, the remaining one summons 1 mage each time.
So those are 52 monster PLUS whatever the basic monsters summon up (there was a gate-demon and an efreeti for sure).
My kill-score is 1610 at the moment. Strongest monster was (according to the game) Firkraag.
Yours divides between your group, and I think you didn't play the BG1 part either before you go all-whoa.

But when you'll fight the draw bhaalspawn, you'll have an ever bigger heap maybe!

[twillight]

Here is a container that's "within" a container:

containers

There's another such thing in the Umar Hills' dungeon where the Shadow Master was, that being inside the talking head at which you solve the ritual-puzzles. That I never could open. Any information of its content would be welcome.

And this is my favourite battle:

battle story

I'd never though the head-illithid is so weak against mind control, but the Staff of Domination 100% works.

---------

Leaving BG2:
Yes, there are a ton of "can be useful" item in the game, and with a (potentially) weak character you want to bring them all.
This actually shouldn't pose such a dilemma with all the bags available if you are even marginally reasonable. In the Bag of Holding, a Gem Bag, 2 Scroll Case you should be able to stuff a crapload of item, so much even you don't even have to think about what to stash in the Watcher's Keep, because the answer to that should be NOTHING.

Stealing from Drizzt&Co:
We all know after Bodhi some guy will appearand take away all the item - or is it all the item?
Actually he only takes the NAMED items. And while there isn't much outside those, there's a ring of invisibility on one of them (not sure how the program handles the group, it is sure there when you meet them coming from the Underdark).

-----------

As the Tears and Irenicus are trivia, I won't go into details. The only question can be the Wrath Tear, because the +3 STR is nice, but:
- there's the Fire Giant belt (gives 22 STR)
- my bard can reach 20 natural STR with the +3 STR from Wrath
- Crom Faeyr gives 25 STR
- the only other belt to change for is Belt of Inertial Barrier, and to be honest that seems a little bit marginal compared to just put on a STR-belt/CromF
- my bard started with minimal charisma, and as Deck of Many Things did not improve that, I only have 17, which is not enough for Keldorn's armor. That armor gives free action, +1 saves, and 0 AC, tone on the free action as that can combo Defensive Spin.
EDIT: You actually get +1 DEX as a bard (rogue?) if you yell his face.

Ok, there's also the question of Selfishness Tear.
- bard can have bloody high MR without what this provides (50% Carsomyr, 20% 2*Ring of Kangaxx, 10% Amulet of the Seldarine/Kaligun's Amulet, 5% Machine of Lum, Robe of Vecna 10%/ Human Flesh Armor 20% = 95-105% MR)
- bard has crappy AC
- the loss of DEX hurts
- AC can/will become marginal.
So here are all this for you to decide.
WARNING: the evil reward is BUGGED! The AC-bonus don't work anymoreif your AC reaches -20. Bard can reach BEYOND the AC-cap: -25 with the right combination of equipment: 2*ring of Gaxx, fortress shield, BMU, helm of Balduran, cloak of sewers, axe of the unyielding (or similar), DEX 21 (or lower, depending on weapon). ABOVE this should the -2 AC from the tear come, but it does not apply that way.
With the above stats, PLUS the evil tear-reward and Armor of the Heart (or other -2 AC armor) the -20 AC cap is reached.
Final Note: you can swap on Keldorn's Armor (which is otherwise a very specific item) just using the Ring of Human Influence or other charisma-improving item.

And now the equipments I used during BG2:

rings: Ring of Kangaxx (*2), Ring of Free Action
amulet: Harper's Pin, Amulet of Power (immunity to leveldrain), Sensate Amulet (protection from evil - no summoned demon will notice)
helm: Helm of Balduran
gloves: Gauntlet of Extraordinary Specialisation
armor: Aeger's Hide -> Melodic Mail -> Corthala Family Armor / Plate of Balduran -> Armor of the Heart / Robe of Vecna (the plate armors and vecna are situational, use depends on meta-gaming)
arrows: arrow of piercing, arrow +2/+3, acid arrow, quiver of plenty +1
cloak: Cloak of the Sewers -> Cloak of Displacement
boots: Boots of Speed
belt: of Hill Giant Strength -> of Stone Giant Strength
quick items: Horn of Valhalla, Flesh Golem Book, healing potions (wands don't really have use, but sometimes some scrolls here can help)
shields: Shield of Harmony (main), Tower Shield, Shield of Balduran

weapons:
situational weapons:
staff of air, staff of earth, staff of fire, rod of smiting, carsomyr, battle axe +3 Frostreaver (has elemental damage, onehanded), Crom Faeyr
basic weapon progression:
dagger +1 -> staff of Rhynn / battle axe +3 Frostreaver -> Crom Faeyr -> Dragon's Breath

charged items used (used more than once, or at important situation):
Ring of Kangaxx, Ras, Harp of Discord, Staff of Striking, Wand of Cloudkill, Daystar.
Potion of Invisibility, Oil of Speed, Potion of Fire Resistance.
No record on used scrolls.

used spells (at least on one occasion):
Mirror Image, Knock, Melf's Minute Meteor, Fireball, Stone Skin, Improved Invisibility, Sunfire, Protection from Acid, Mislead, Death Fog, Death Spell,

[twillight]

Bhaal's Tears Double Solution (exploits):

Wrath:
There's no exploit here, but there's an easter egg: yell at Sharevok for an extra bonus stat point depending on class above what the gate gives. (removed in Enhanced Edition mistakenly thinking it was a bug)

Greed:
You want the Black Razor while also wish the Good reward? Can be done, if someone in your party can pickpocket. First drop the sword, then pickpocket the tear from the djinn (tell it you don't know what to do). Go and take the reward from the gate, then go back and pick up the sword.
NOTE: the blackrazor only gives prot. from charm/fear. No regeneration, no leveldrain or other activated ability. Under latest ToB patch and Weidu.

Selfishness:
For this you need an NPC in your party, who must be hasted (lend the Boots of Speed for example). Before the person gets held has just enough tome to open the doors from the inside, so you won't have to loose the dexterity stat (or anything) for the good reward.
SOLO SOLUTION: The stats aren't just taken away. Opening the doors actually triggers divination spells. Now if you have Spell Immunity running... You don't loose anything.
SOLO SOLUTION 2: you can't cast spells Spell Immunity? Don't worry! Right when the conversation ends with the demon pause the game (or be freakin' fast), and talk with it again before it teleports away! There, free good Tear of Bhaal.
After this you can open all the doors as you please, but their effect will still happen. The funny thing is, the evil doors will hurt Nobody (have you seen the movie "My Name is Nobody"?).

Fear:
Tell the demon you have to consider your options, get the tear, gain the reward, then go back and ask the cloak from the demon. I checked, you stay immun when you go back to the gate. Should test if the reward remains after transition to ToB to be 100% sure of the process though (true for Greed too).

NOTE: tried to kill the demon on duty, but it has minimum HP 1. Also immun to vorpal effect (and thus I suspect any instant death condition, like turning to stone).

Pride:
you can say you don't kill the dragon, then go and kill the beast anyway for 22,000 exp. It won't have any of the spell scrolls though.

------

Fighting Irenicus: dress to AC, and (if you can) dualwield Crom Fayer with Axe of Unyielding (as I said dress for AC. I also took the AC-reward from the tear, and the evil wrath reward for the +1 Dex). Put 3 traps to the far side of the arena in front of the big gate (this isn't necessary per se, but Irenicus at times maze you and it is frustrating to die for that), 2 trap to kill one of the 4-armed demon, 1 trap to make a red-demon Near Death (dies at first hit).
Start the battle, and focus on the demons using offensive spin. When they are all down switch to Carsomyr and hit the "mislead". There seems to be some kind of bug where the misleads of Irenicus don't disappear, but it might related to the 3 traps layed on the far... Whatever. If you did everything in THIS order you get victory-screen at the moment you land the first hit on that ~Mislead.

Keep in this equipment for the first challenge of ToB too.

------------

Saradush:
- do the library quest and get project image scrolls, and whatever you like. I took an antidote potion to craft Thief Hood.
- steal the Shakti Figurine. Maybe it can come in handy, although its AC sux by letter (not that much if AC -5 is your base AC w/o armour).