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[xoopx]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Jan 14 2005, 12:09 AM

If you are searching for a rom, then the answer is no. Any link to another site will most likely be removed on the spot.

Roms are illegal, and are in no point related to ABW by the fact that they are copies of a RL hard material (in comparison to software, which is a string of code and thus does not constitute an entity per se), turning it into piracy.

Abadonnia have a very strict rule on warez, and I beleive roms would fall into that category also.

the roms are just program code... dumped and turned into data the same as a zip of allycat.exe or anything else 'abandonware'
i dont see any distinction, especially in a legal sense

[JJXB]

he asked for zero wing, he didn't say anything about roms, did he? he only enquired about the game without saying anything related to emulation (the question of emulation only cropped up in your post EOF (previous posts mentioned it was on a console, NOT saying anything about roms) so you were the first person to mention roms EOF. anyway, the legality of emulation depends on a lot of things (its not as if your going to find new commodore 64 tapes in shops now is it?) so you'd have a case for going against emulation of a system if it was recent enough but as the mega drive is damn near impossible to track down brand new with brand new games i'd say you don't have a case for arguing against it legally. this may not be an emulation site but don't ban talk of it just as long as it doesn't take over.

[xoopx]

Originally posted by JJXB@Jan 14 2005, 02:05 AM
he asked for zero wing, he didn't say anything about roms, did he? he only enquired about the game without saying anything related to emulation (the question of emulation only cropped up in your post EOF (previous posts mentioned it was on a console, NOT saying anything about roms) so you were the first person to mention roms EOF. anyway, the legality of emulation depends on a lot of things (its not as if your going to find new commodore 64 tapes in shops now is it?) so you'd have a case for going against emulation of a system if it was recent enough but as the mega drive is damn near impossible to track down brand new with brand new games i'd say you don't have a case for arguing against it legally. this may not be an emulation site but don't ban talk of it just as long as it doesn't take over.

not to mention that if anyone runs a dos game in dosbox theyre using pure emulation. dosbox runs on a mac, or any other computer you want to port it to.. its just coincidence that most of us have p.c's that we run it on.
its very important that roms are dumped - they arent going to last forever.. a lot of rare arcade games have no working hardware in existence.. those games only exist in emulation now. this is why with MAME they try and dump everything, even if its not going to get emulated - its to preserve gaming history.
same with c-64 tapes like you said.. and amiga floppy disks. after 15 years most tapes and floppies are dead.

[Eagle of Fire]

First, DOSBox emulate DOS, not the programs themselves. You still need the programs to play thru DOSBox. Having DOSBox in itself will allow you to have a nice DOS on your XP computer (or any computer it works on), and is not at all an argument in "emulation" since DOS is a dead OS that is freeware now. It is really a simple Windows compatibility problem here, and it is the reason DOSBox been created in the first place.

Second, I'm not the one who brought roms to this thread first, if you actually read I quoted 2 times before talking. And then it was only informative. See the "if" at the beginning of the post?

Discussion about roms already been done on this board, and I don't see what you two whining about it will change. Abadonnia do not deal in console emulation and I think Abadonnia even condemn it, tough Kosta would need to come here personally to state his oppinion on the matter since I can't talk for him.

For console games, just go at any place which sell old console games and you will find tons of them easily available anywhere. They are physical entity, even tough you want to argue that they are piece of code like software. However, it is not the case because the old laws been created for physical entities, and a console enter this description very well. Computer softwares however does not, and are considered intellectual properties since they do not have a physical form in themselves. The disks are all the same, and what they can contain change depending of what is on it while console games are a mecanical manifestation of a cadridge which is composed of electrical components, just like a computer.

Now, if you were arguing about PS games and above, which are played on CD or DVD disks, I would give you a point about the games being software like computer games. However, they are too new to be considered ABW and thus are Warez.

[xoopx]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Jan 14 2005, 02:07 PM
First, DOSBox emulate DOS, not the programs themselves. You still need the programs to play thru DOSBox. Having DOSBox in itself will allow you to have a nice DOS on your XP computer (or any computer it works on), and is not at all an argument in "emulation" since DOS is a dead OS that is freeware now. It is really a simple Windows compatibility problem here, and it is the reason DOSBox been created in the first place.re Warez.

you're completely wrong. yes, dosbox emulates dos, but it also emulates an entire p.c in software - the soundcard, the graphics card, the cpu, the bios, the i/o the whole thing.
the dos games you play on it are just data, same as a rom and you're running them in emulation. you could run them on a mac, like i said, using dosbox.

[xoopx]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Jan 14 2005, 02:07 PM

Discussion about roms already been done on this board, and I don't see what you two whining about it will change. Abadonnia do not deal in console emulation and I think Abadonnia even condemn it, tough Kosta would need to come here personally to state his oppinion on the matter since I can't talk for him.

we arent whining about it, genius. we know this is a p.c site we are just pointing out that your arguments are wrong. i can get roms plenty of other places, why would i want a p.c site to host them? when did i ever say i did?
as for microsoft DOS being FREEWARE ahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaaha

[feminista]

They are physical entity, even tough you want to argue that they are piece of code like software. However, it is not the case because the old laws been created for physical entities, and a console enter this description very well. Computer softwares however does not, and are considered intellectual properties since they do not have a physical form in themselves.

Only the software part of a cartridge is copied when making a ROM. The emulators reverse-engineer any specific chips used in the cartridges, they are not stored in the ROM. So, ROMs are not, as you say, copies of physical entities, simply copies of the software stored on those physical entities, just as abandonware is a copy of what is stored on the physical disc which the game came on. And if you think reverse engineering software methods for emulating hardware is illegal.... well, I wouldn't know what to say. I might just stifle a giggle and move on.

[JJXB]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Jan 14 2005, 02:07 PM
First, DOSBox emulate DOS, not the programs themselves. You still need the programs to play thru DOSBox. Having DOSBox in itself will allow you to have a nice DOS on your XP computer (or any computer it works on), and is not at all an argument in "emulation" since DOS is a dead OS that is freeware now. It is really a simple Windows compatibility problem here, and it is the reason DOSBox been created in the first place.

Second, I'm not the one who brought roms to this thread first, if you actually read I quoted 2 times before talking. And then it was only informative. See the "if" at the beginning of the post?

Discussion about roms already been done on this board, and I don't see what you two whining about it will change. Abadonnia do not deal in console emulation and I think Abadonnia even condemn it, tough Kosta would need to come here personally to state his oppinion on the matter since I can't talk for him.

For console games, just go at any place which sell old console games and you will find tons of them easily available anywhere. They are physical entity, even tough you want to argue that they are piece of code like software. However, it is not the case because the old laws been created for physical entities, and a console enter this description very well. Computer softwares however does not, and are considered intellectual properties since they do not have a physical form in themselves. The disks are all the same, and what they can contain change depending of what is on it while console games are a mecanical manifestation of a cadridge which is composed of electrical components, just like a computer.

Now, if you were arguing about PS games and above, which are played on CD or DVD disks, I would give you a point about the games being software like computer games. However, they are too new to be considered ABW and thus are Warez.

if you read your first post carefully the you'll find YOU mentioned it first. the quotes didn't even say anything about roms, the first one was the enquiry about the game and the second one asked if it was on the mega drive. neither of those 2 quotes was saying OR inciting anything about ROMS. so i was correct in saying YOU first bought up the question of emulators. and as for the answer to the IF bit, that is null and viod due to the fact earlier in this post. at least xoopx and feminista understand my point.

[Eagle of Fire]

You three are doing very good cases of flaming and trolling...

If I was mod of this forum I could have closed this thread already.

[xoopx]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Jan 14 2005, 05:20 PM
You three are doing very good cases of flaming and trolling...

If I was mod of this forum I could have closed this thread already.

actually you're the "flaming troll" ... you already accused me and jjxb of "whining" when we were doing no such thing. jjxb hasnt even reacted to that, and feminsta hasnt said anything remotely flaming.
maybe if you stuck to things you know something about, you wouldnt make *yourself* look ignorant.