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[Tulac]

Umm I don't see justifying piracy in any of my posts, do you?

I just say that's the way it is, mentally, and you just can't understand it, it's something wrong immoral to you, but something plain normal to me, I know it's wrong...

And by the WoW case I only proved that yes we have money to play games since obviously WoW isn't one of the cheaper games out there...

[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by Tulac@Mar 17 2006, 10:42 PM
I just say that's the way it is, mentally, and you just can't understand it, it's something wrong immoral to you, but something plain normal to me, I know it's wrong...

What do you mean, I "don't understand"?

I started gaming on a C64, I was owning and playing hundreds of copied games before they even heard about "microchips" where you live. Before you were even born, actually. I know and "understand" perfectly well. I just don't approve of it anymore now.

And by the WoW case I only proved that yes we have money to play games since obviously WoW isn't one of the cheaper games out there...

Somehow just makes the things you want me to "understand" even less understandeble, does it not?

And exactly HOW do "immorality" and "normality" exclude each other, anyway?

[moogle]

Originally posted by TheGiantMidgit@Mar 17 2006, 12:18 PM

LOL, you "watch" Pennyarcade to Midget? o_0

[plix]

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@Mar 17 2006, 07:05 PM
And exactly HOW do "immorality" and "normality" exclude each other, anyway?

Law (let's be clear about what we're talking about here; I'll get to morality in a minute) in the western world is supposed to be reflection of societal standards. That is to say, law is supposed to reflect the beliefs of the people it regulates. It's the basis of democracy and it's the reason that people call for reform, such as the reform of patent law and copyright.

The laws are different in eastern European countries and have been for some time; it's only recently that the influence of the west has started to move them toward parity. To be so culturally bigoted as to assume that Tulac should subscribe to laws which traditionally have not applied to him is the same sort of imerialist mentality which has so strongly jaded international opinion of Americans in recent times. Grow up.

Now, in terms of morality: keep in mind that morality is a personal thing usually guided by religious and cultural standards. A person's view of right and wrong is generally instilled by parents until such a time as one is mature enough to develop and refine their thoughts independently. What gives you the right to impose your personal morals on those around you? Familiar with the Crusades? The Christian persecution by the Romans? The Holocaust? All driven by bigotry rooted in interpersonal conflict of morals.

Are you familiar with the fact that copyright and patents are both artifical protections based in the ideal of furthering the arts and sciences? I personally don't much consider the current situation to have much connection to that ideal. Copyright these days is used as a tool of profiteering and the restriction of information. I mean seriously, patenting gene sequences? You've thus far done nothing but blindly criticized Tulac for offering a dissimilar point of view with a defense of "I think it's wrong!" If you want to be taken seriously you might want to consider actually putting forth a reasonable argument as to why you're so morally justified in being so prejudicial.

The irony of this entire matter? Fundamentally I believe piracy to be wrong, I just happen to also believe that current copyright and patent law is so out-of-whack with reality that it's serving the wrong interests (those of corporations rather than those of the arts and sciences).

[Tulac]

Originally posted by Chuck the plant@Mar 18 2006, 02:05 AM
What do you mean, I "don't understand"?

I started gaming on a C64, I was owning and playing hundreds of copied games before they even heard about "microchips" where you live. Before you were even born, actually. I know and "understand" perfectly well. I just don't approve of it anymore now.

I'm guessing in the C64 era, laws about electronic copyrights were not very well defined, well guess what they were not defined here until 97' (that's when I already started playing games) and we're not really put to use untl 02' when the first pirates were caught, and those were only caught because they had a huge and very public business...

I guess there is a law, but I don't feel like I'm breaking it since chances for me to get fined for it are none, and that way I don't feel like doing something wrong, that's just the way it is...

[chickenman]

Almost everyone using the Internet has downloaded warez at some point, company's and the government try to stop the downloading of warez but it just can't be done. There are too many people doing it for it to be stopped.

Also most of the people that download warez don't care about the damage done to the publisher / developer, the Internet is a place of free speech, and also as many say a place for free warez !

You can say all you like against warez, but it's not going to stop it.

[Bobbin Threadbare]

I think everyone that knows how to use the internet has.

[Chuck the plant]

@ plix:

Look, I'll make this very easy, just for you. One of the basic principles of our modern society is specialisation, meaning: One does not have to know a little bit of eveything and take care of all the stuff they need or want themselves. You don't need to know how to build a house, because someone else will do this for you. You don't know how to bake bread, make cheese or sausage, because someone else will do this for you. Given you give them money to do this, which you aqquire by selling the things YOUR skills allowe you to produce to those who need/want them. Money is important because the things YOU can do for others might not always be the things they want and/or need in exchange for THEIR services and skills.
Obviously there is a rather large demand for the products game-designers can provide. However, many people are not willing to give anything in exchange. This is not only taking advantage of someone else - which should already qualify as being "immoral" in itself - it's robbing those people of their possibility to earn money. Is this really difficult to understand?

And about "normality" and "immorality":
Do you have ANY idea, how "immoral" many of those then so called "normal" things were that happened in the Third Reich, in Stalinist russia, in Mao's China etc.?

@ Tulac: Nope, the copyright-laws here were more or less like they are now even back then. It's just that the software-industry wasn't as important back then as it is today - from a financial point of view - and so nobody really bothered to really enforce those laws just because some unimportant overseas-companies would be put out of business...

[Tulac]

Yes, and here nobody still bothers about that, get it?

The only who might get caught are pirates who sell copied games and are very public and known, or companies which use pirated software, because those get inspected often and must pay big fines...

[Bobbin Threadbare]

Originally posted by Tulac@Mar 18 2006, 11:12 PM
Yes, and here nobody still bothers about that, get it?

The only who might get caught are pirates who sell copied games and are very public and known, or companies which use pirated software, because those get inspected often and must pay big fines...

And big fines = :not_ok:

But what idiot would sell them publically. I mean if I get Warez if someone I know asks for it I'll give them a free copy.