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[Looking Glass]

Well let me first say I am not new to Abandonia, although it has been a really long while since I last posted something on the forums. It's actually been so long that I have forgotten my old login name, not to mention the password, so this is a new account for me.

What I am about to write is something I have been wondering about for a long time now, but never really got around to posting, but somehow the question needed to be asked.

I noticed a similar thread about new games and/or getting older and mine is going to share a few similarities , but felt that my topic is different enough to warrant a new topic.

Okay, where to start?

Well from the beginning I guess...

I grew up playing Adventure games and RPG games predominantly. I was never really that big into RTS or FPS, but I did play a few of the more well known and higher rated games from those genres. The thing, I think for me, the reason I actually choose gaming to be my main hobby was because of the great stories and characters in Adventure and RPG games. It was better than watching tv, it was better than reading a book, it was an experience, a magical event.

I still have fond memories of Manny and Glottis from Grim Fandango, George Stobbart from Broken Sword, Morte from Planescape Torment, April from The Longest Journey, Guybrush from Monkey Island and Minsk from Baldur's Gate. Heck, these are just a few of my favorite characters from a few games I considered and still do, to be more than games. I could carry on mentioning others such as Fallout, Zork, Arcanum, all of which were very special games for me.

I am sure I'm not the only one with fond memories of past gaming experiences, but as of late, I cannot remember the last game of recent times, that has left me with one of those special feelings, a great memory.

Maybe it is cause I am getting older and have other responsibilities now ... perhaps its the quality of games that are being released, I don't really know anymore, but I do know that desire and excitement to play a game is no longer as strong as it used to be, nor is the memory afterwards upon finishing a game.

I really can't remember the last game that made me say WOW, what a game, what a story. The only game that I can think of for me, that deserves a mention is The Chronicles of Riddick. I really enjoyed that one, only played it a year ago.

I still enjoy gaming, but I find I use gaming more nowdays as a way to kill a bit of time, or as something else to do for a few minutes or maybe even a couple of hours here and there to take a break from boredom that creeps into routine activities. It seems that I would rather spend my free time reading from the internet, than playing a game. Heck even of late, tv seems more appealing.

Then there is this other problem, I actually still have some games that I purchased within the last year, most of which are from the bargin bin, but they are the must haves from a few years back. Games like KOTOR1 & 2, Thief 3, Farcry, Neverwinter Nights and a few others that don't come to mind right now, but for some reason I just don't have the energy or desire to actually get the CD's out install the games and play them. It's actually quite strange, I really wanted these games and I remember how fast I snapped them up when I saw them in the bargin bin, but now they kinda just sit there doing nothing, while I lament about memories of old.

Most of my gaming time is now actually spent playing Counter Strike: Source. It's a kinda weird addiction I have with it. I started playing CS way back when, and even though the games looks better now, its still more of the same and one would think you would get bored of it after all these years, but for some reason I will rather load up CS and play and hour, nevermind that it is the exact same boring game that I have played years ago, than play an hour of one of the games I have not played before. I don't really know why I do this.
I actually want to play a new game, but I think its the fact that it is a new game, that also puts me off. I can only think that it must be because, it's something new I am going to have to adapt to, it's a new learning curve and maybe a fear that if I do play it, it is not going to live up to my expectations.

I have seen and read quite a bit about many of the games of late. More "fast-food" like in nature. They are more action orientated, prettier to look at, yet shallow and more of a been-there-done-that feeling associated with them and with all the sequels being pushed out, could be a reason why I am feeling how I am.

I want that excitement back, but I think perhaps I am just getting older now and/or losing my love for gaming. I just don't see the games anymore that were my reasons for taking up gaming in the first place. ,Dreamfall doesn't feel like The Longest Journey, Broken Sword 4 while I thought it was a good game especially since it is one of the last few adventures left, felt a bit empty, sad in a way, just like I am feeling nowdays for gaming. It's like I have left all my friends behind and they are nothing but memories.

Maybe it's because my favourite genre, Adventures, are all but dead, maybe its me. Maybe its time to put the "toys" behind me and move on, but that memory of love I had for gaming still reminds me of how great games can be, but as of late, it seems like I am just lost in the woods and looking for a direction in my gaming world so to speak.

Any of you guys feel the same way?

P.S. I feel the same with regards to movies, I would rather go watch something old that I have seen than see a lot of the new films.

[Krustacean]

Adventure will never die, not on my watch.

But I know how you feel. I'm not that big of a FPS fan myself but the game I am playing most nowadays is Battlefield 2 MC (on ps2). I have been a computer and console gamer forever but I am not happy with the way either industries are going. I have no intentions whatsoever getting into the 7th gen of consoles. The DRE issues with PS2 being swept under the rug, the overpriced games/online services & downloads, and overall lack of anything jaw dropping in terms of gameplay innovation. This will be the true generation of gimmick, gloss, and developer buyouts. I believe that for these reasons computer gaming will have new opportunities but it will be on the people with our mindset and appreciation of the old to switch things up.

For now I enjoy going back and playing those (albeit often crap) games that wouldn't run on a 486, or that weren't affordable or easy to find. Not even playing them necessarily, but just reading about them and looking at screen shots or reviews is more appealing than trying something modern like Oblivion. That carries over into all aspects of entertainment for me...I watch more reruns and cable/on demand movies than I do new movies or shows. Same with music, I like looking up and listening to all the stuff that influenced my favorite bands rather than listen to them (who are defunct for the most part themselves). Its not that theres no good new music, its just that it doesn't hold my interest.

[Looking Glass]

Not even playing them necessarily, but just reading about them and looking at screen shots or reviews is more appealing than trying something modern like Oblivion. That carries over into all aspects of entertainment for me...I watch more reruns and cable/on demand movies than I do new movies or shows. Same with music, I like looking up and listening to all the stuff that influenced my favorite bands rather than listen to them (who are defunct for the most part themselves). Its not that theres no good new music, its just that it doesn't hold my interest.
[/b]

And I thought I was the only one that did this

Is it them or is it us? Are we trying to hold on to the glory days of old or is it really that bad right now?

It's weird actually I don't really have that passion anymore for modern games, don't get me wrong, I can still fall for the hype just like anyone else, heck right now I am excited about Bioshock, Supreme Commander, Crysis and Hellgate: London (although I doubt my PC will be able to handle those future games), but I just have that feeling that even if were to get them, I couldn't be bothered to actually play them, well maybe thats not fair to Bioshock at least, it's apparently got a lot of the guys from the old SS2 team and Thief teams working on it, so there is hope.

I seem to nowdays go more for the quick fix type of games or games of old that I am familar with. Why ? I can't give a definite answer. As I said in my first post, perhaps I am just getting older, perhaps its other responsibilities, perhaps time is more of a factor now or perhaps its the industry that has opted for visuals over substance. Heck some days I feel that if gaming where to die, I would survive ... it's a crazy thought, I know.

[Krustacean]

I think it's a little bit of everything. Tastes do change and nostalgia definantly plays a role. It seems more common lately that features are held back from a game for the sole purpose of making a sequel more interesting.

Take for instance the Sims, a game I don't even like but sells like Virgin Mary ebay toast. After all the mindless add ons and rereleases you still have no option of exploring in first person. I mean come on, you could even "ride" the attractions back in 1994's Theme Park. Thats just laziness and little things like that ruin modern games for me. Its funny but playing Commander Keen I don't find myself saying "gee I wish I had a jet pack right here" and I don't quit playing Doom just because a rocket launcher fails to move an empty burning barrel.

On the other hand you have these massive levels with sandbox elements yet you can hardly manipulate anything. I think as games get more "realistic" that aspect really takes away from the experience. It doesn't bother me in old games but now, if there is a glass window, I expect that it will shatter when unloading a 12 gauge into it. If it does break, I expect those shards not to evaporate into thin air but fall to the ground and crunch when I step on them. Thats the kind of detail you should be getting for $60 on a piece of software designed with the tools and knowledge and experience of todays game makers.

Of course a lot of that can be considered personal nitpicking and in that case I am the only one to blame. That is why I picked up an engine and decided to start looking into making games myself. Now if I find myself complaining or frustrated about a purchase, I can add it to the list of things to incorporate someday. If I wouldn't have started doing that last year I am sure my interest in games would be at least a little bit lower than it is right now.

[Geezer]

Tell you what, I will never understand the attraction of the MMORPG. The attraction to gaming for me was always the world it created for me that was my own. Much like a good book but with a little mental exercise to boot. Didn't need to be charged a monthly fee so that I can spend countless hours on needlessly drawn out exercises while being challenged by 1000 12 year old kids who spend 50 hours online a week to make themselves invincible. When I watch my sons play the new on line games I think to myself "what a shame" and "how boring". He spends all his gaming time just trying to keep up with his online buddies and shelling out 15 bucks a month for what seems to be a very empty experience.


I hope the industry does not forsake the single player adventure in the endless pursuit of greater profit.

[Looking Glass]

Geezer you bring up another great point, one that I was even going to make a separate topic for, that of peoples opinions regarding Single Player gaming vs Multiplayer gaming.

I waited for quite a while until I eventually gave in, to buying World of Warcraft. At first I did not want it, as having to buy a game, and then pay "rent", was not something you would normally do for a game you have just bought, but the 5 million subscribers couldn't be wrong could they? So I finally gave in and purchased it.

It was my first MMORPG and ironically it's also going to be my last. My time with WOW didn't last more than 1 week. I didn't get it then, and I still don't get it now... how can people get addicted to a game that treats you like an errand boy? Kill 5 wolves, skins 10 boars ... etc.

I got so bored just running from one area to another to do an errand that I do not see the appeal of the game. Perhaps its the social aspect, but the fact that you spend more time running around than doing anything else is just insane.

It's funny really, I actually needed to waste money and purchase WOW in order for me to be a "better gamer," with regards to me not falling so easily for hype now days and to make more worthwhile purchases. I know I will never fall for a game that has me paying a monthly fee to play it again, if all games finally do move in that direction, at least I'll still have hundreds of oldies to catch up on.

I hardly buy new games anymore, once in a while, something will come along especially, from old favorite developers or a sequel thats taken years to be released, and i'll pick that up, but mostly I just wait for the game to reach budget prices and I can end up picking up 4-5 games for the price of one new one. Not that there are many newer games that will remind me of why I fell in love with gaming to begin with.

Perhaps developers need to start focusing on stories and characters again.

Anyway back to the topic of this post, the single player aspect vs the multiplayer aspect.

Almost all of my fond memories of games actually come from single player games. As you said Geezer, it's the world the game creates for you, a world where you can experience it as you want, when you want and especially how you want. If you want to fumble along the way, or take it slow its up to you. It's your own little part of the day where you can escape life's stresses.

I was actually wondering if the way I feel about a lot of modern games could be also due to the fact that I have spent a lot of time playing multiplayer games these past few years. I will still play the odd single player game, but mostly just quick breaks of multiplayer gaming.

I think that actually might be one problem, because multiplayer games don't change its the same thing over and over and you eventually do get bored with it, but somehow as I mentioned in my earlier post I still play Counter Strike more than any other game. I personally think its the "competition" aspect that has me hooked. It's fun to beat other guys, actually think that they admire you, but you eventually realize that the competition aspect, for me anyway, is what takes away from those magical moments of games.

You can really have that "escape", when you have kids swearing on the one side, others insulting you for you lack of skill, or even calling you a cheat.

I actually think I need to quit playing any multiplayer games, perhaps I'll find a little bit of magic of old. No feelings of needing to compete, no need to defend yourself as a newbie or a skilled veteran, and finally doing what you should be doing when playing games, enjoying yourself and the story or characters the game presents you with.

I know it will be pretty hard for me, it's far easier to load up a multiplayer FPS and play 30 minutes, than it is to load up a game where story and character are important, not that many of those games are out there nowdays, but they are out there, they just require more investigation to find, although it most likely not the mainstream developers who are creating those games. Time does play more of a factor these days as well, and I actually find it hard to just get the energy to load up a great single player RPG, and play through it, when I know it's going to take me months to finish as well.

But ultimately I know the only truly memorable experiences from gaming come from single player games.

What are you opinions with regards to multiplayer and single player gaming, especially relating to how modern games seem to be moving to the multiplayer area now? Everyone and their dogs are now making MMO's not to mention, episodic type of gaming.

Any of you guys just single player gamers?

I actually started that way and was only a single player gamer, and fell the way of multiplayer back when UT first came out, as well as with games like the Diablo 2 and the original CS and strangely gaming has never really been the same after marathon online sessions with those games. Maybe I just got burned out and still continue to burn myself out by playing one of them, although with a new look and all.

Krustacean regarding games just looking more realistic everyday, I agree it gets to a point where you start noticing things that you really shouldn't, the games don't stay games they become more of a simulation even if you are shooting monsters and such. It's a double-edged sword in my opinion, the better the games look and the more physics they add, the more you notice how unrealistic the game actually is.

[jg007]

There probably is an element of this in my strange game collection habits as I often find buying them more fun than actually playing them but then that might also be related to my lack of time as I often browse sites like this for 10-20 minutes but find it too much work to sit down and play for the required 2+ hours on most games, at least on adventure games I could usually acomplish something in 20 minutes and didn't feel like I had to carry on playing.

I'm also not sure I agree that the adventure game is dead, just have a browse on justadventure.com and there are plenty of interesting looking titles the genre is just not as mainstream as it once was .

also go have a look at ' http://www.dott2.de/ ' there are plenty of people still interested in those old games who would love some more to be produced just at present the markets are pouring all the money into more clones of fps & stratergy games which also for me just can't keep my interest as the adventure games do

[Japo]

I know what you mean. Games nowadays are not anywhere near the 90s ones in terms of gameplay, but it's not just that. Most people see Abandonia et al. as sites where they can remember the games they played of old. Well as a kid I didn't have a computer until I was sixteen and then it was a grossly obsolete 286 16 MHz with 1 Mb RAM and 40 Mb HD around the late 90s, so I didn't have the opportunity to be a gamer the way most kids of my generation were, even though I really wanted a computer so badly to play then. Also I have just acquired a couple of months ago my first first-hand computer which wasn't obsolete when I got it, so my relatively short life as a gamer has been filled only with oldies because of the obsolete hardware I got at hand. I wasn't disappointed by modern games, I compared what they offered in their advertising with what I had in the oldies I was playing, and I was already sceptical about them from the start and I've been reasserted since.

So for me Abandonia is more like a place where I can find great games I did not play as a kid. If I was still a kid I would be addicted for decades, downloading and playing through the 99 per cent of the games I couldn't play as a kid or coul only see at my friends' places. And still I am not, because as you say gaming can't get my attention as it did before. I think it has something to do with age, but not because gaming is directly kiddish.

I still like to have gaming available as a way of relaxedly spend part of my free time, even talking about games here and in other Spanish site where I'm an admin. But I've found that learning how to play a new game, even a seemingly really good old one like for example Privateer --never tried it, currently in my to-play queue-- intimidates me or rather I can't summon enough interest to start; as a kid I would have been stuck in my chair for days until I cracked all tactics in the game. Also I get bored earlier, but that's another issue.

Here in Spain we say that "and old dog can't learn new tricks". I've heard that a kid's brain is open to learning new things, but as one grows up his brain stiffens and concentrates on what he learnt to do as a kid, the neurons making up the rest of the connections killed away, and an adult isn't as able as before to learn new stuff. I think this is the main cause of what you say and I also experience. Playing any game with depth is all about learning new things at every turn and exerting the mind in a way only a kid, not only can do easily but even can be strongly drawn to do.

What leads me to think that, even though my father liked to keep me away of them for my own sake, videogames are actually educational, not only the so-called educational ones, but a great deal of them. I'd say that all games which aren't counter-educational for some reason, are educational to some extent because they exert the mind --needless to say that it's bad to abuse of even good things. And it's just a pity that our generation grew up with deep and intelectually exciting games like the ones by Microprose or those great adventuring ones, and the current generations are growing only with stupid hack 'n slash 3D games, grossly inferior even to Arkanoid in terms of gameplay depth.

As for the single vs. multiplayer, here I am, I'm an exclusively single player, always been, hotseat at the most. I've never played over the Net, I tried once with Re-Volt over here but the game was bugged and we didn't manage. I don't think it's about how many players are there, but games designed for multiplayer are necessarily simple, and not only nowadays. Games like Worms or Wacky Wheels are really great for playing against friends, but if you play them alone you'll be bored pretty soon. Also if a friend has come to your place you may play Star Control II in melee mode, but if you're alone the full adventure mode will give you far more entertainment, longer.

[crazedloon]

Good to see that this site has some Arkanoid fans here. I'm very keen on that game. I think it develops mental skills that haven't been studied in any great depth, but which have obvious benefits. Sort of makes your brain more computer-like and efficient, while installing a multi-tasking operating system (kind of like putting stuff on the cache/CPU pipeline and then picking them up again after a certain number of clock cycles). The guy who had the best educated explanation of how this works (=CO= Windler) has unfortunately taken down his great website. I can't explain it at all well, but I remember when I had this pressured job once, and I actually enjoyed handling loads of things at once and also dealing with unexpected stuff, and was fully aware that I was using the section of my brain that I "zoned" into when playing Arkanoid/Breakout.

[gregor]

i like multiplayer games too. but more the coperative ones. FPS really get's stupid (peopel kicking you off for no reason, calling you names cause you use a bazooka and they use mines)... i think with multiplayer the problem is that it's hard to find enough people who would be willing to play the game for fun not to exploit, cheat and call other people names. it's also hard to get peopel that will be ready to realy cooperate and do some teamplay (well unless you ar ein a clan, but who has time to be online for those matches?!?)

i too like Japofran am constantly behind. even with latest upgrade i am still quite behind the new mashcines. the other reason is 10 years ago i had a hard time getting the games (no money for the purchase). now i just dont' have time. still occasioanlly i "share" some stuff and still try it. but usually they too are old ones (from 2002, 2003).

i miss new games that offer coop play and enough monsters to kill. like doom with huge number of monsters. sven-coop added more monsters, but it is just nto the same stepping into a room filled with them.

Diablo is good in this aspect, but lacks in others -->it killed my mouse....