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[raekwonchef]

Gang,

I used to play many of the "Super Solvers" series games as a child and have been trying to get them and other Borderbund/TLC games working for awhile now with issues. I am hoping some of you game gurus can help me get it working. I have a computer that I use for old DOS games and most every game I try works fine aside from these (because they are some of the oldest games I am trying to play).

Specifically, I need Operation Neptune working. This was one of my most favorite games as a young boy. I do see that the game has some DosBox compatibility, but I am, of course, against emulation mostly. I spent a lot of time putting together and configuring this PC for DOS to gain the real experieince again. Here are my PC details:

Pentium 3 733MHz CPU
256MB PC133 RAM @ 100MHz (other bios optimizations disabled to lower perfomance)
Gigabyte ga-6vxc7-4x motherboard (with ISA slot!)
Vibra 16 CT2260 (OEM CT2230) ISA soundcard (IRQ 7 - DMA 1,5)
ATI Rage Ultra 128 AGP (running at 1x AGP)
Two HDDs (one 10GB and one 40GB)

I am dual booting DOS 6.22 with enhanced tools and Windows 98 SE. 40GB drive is master with a 2GB FAT16 DOS partition up front, a second 4GB Windows 98 FAT32 partition next, and another FAT32 partition that uses the rest of the HDD as a storage partition for Windows. The second, 10GB HDD has a 2GB FAT16 partition on it as primary (I use this to share files between Windows 98SE and DOS 6.22 which is a hidden partition). The rest of the 10GB HDD is FAT32 storage for Windows. I had to use a second HDD because FAT16 partitions in LBA extended partitions are not readable by DOS. I use Partition Magic Boot Magic to dual boot both OSes.

I have almost every game working flawlessly in DOS including some more difficult titles like the Ultima series games, but I can't get Operation Neptune to work. Until yesterday, I couldn't even get past the first frame (the game would freeze). I used the "ON -si" switch to force sound to the PC speaker and it launched, ran through the intro and past the title screen, but then I reached a point where you have to hit "Enter" three times before the actual game loads (some paragraphs to read). When I reach the last "Enter", it freezes. It also freezes if I press "ESC" at any time during the intro (probably the same issue as it goes to skip those screen and probably locks up at the same point). I don't understand why the Soundblaster won't work. I have tried the "-sb" and "-gv" switches with no success. I use "slowdown.com" to eat up CPU. Any ideas? I am deperate! :cheesy:

[The Fifth Horseman]

Did you try a different copy of the game?

[dosraider]

..........
Pentium 3 733MHz CPU -> totall overkill
256MB PC133 RAM @ 100MHz -> total overkill, but *shouldn't* hurt as MSDos only uses 64Mb, though some older games will choke on that speed.
Gigabyte ga-6vxc7-4x motherboard (with ISA slot!) -> can do
Vibra 16 CT2260 (OEM CT2230) ISA soundcard (IRQ 7 - DMA 1,5) -> nice but ....***
ATI Rage Ultra 128 AGP (running at 1x AGP) -> total overkill
Two HDDs (one 10GB and one 40GB) -> 2 Gb partitions for Dos??? What a waste of space (clustersize !!!!!!)

I am dual booting DOS 6.22 with enhanced tools -> get rid of those 'enhanced tools, only gives compability troubles with older dosgames. Eventually make a dosbootmenu with different configs...

II have tried the "-sb" and "-gv" switches with no success. *** -> Think you should set soundcard IRQ to 5, many older games expect it to be 5, the IRQ 7 was used later....

I use "slowdown.com" to eat up CPU. -> And another TSR running on the background ... :/

[Edit]

Originally Posted by raekwonchef

I spent a lot of time putting together and configuring this PC for DOS to gain the real experieince again.

You hardly can say you even can get "the real experience again" on such PC -(talking MSDos here of course, not W98)-, you probably would get a better feel of a "real experience" on VPC/MSDos or even dosbox .... you can boot MSDos in dosbox ... did you knew that?

[raekwonchef]

Dosraider,

Thanks for your response. Here's my feedback:

I know the P3 733 is overkill, but I wanted to be able to play a wide range of games on this box including some later windows 98 titles. Slowdown.com has always worked well for me. I had an AMD K7 850MHz before with an ISA slot... lol...

Yeah, again I know 256 is a lot for any DOS app (64MB limit in DOS), but I need it for later games in windows. I see my expanded memory in DOS at 64MB (could that ever cause an issue? Should I limit memory with emm386 somehow?)

At least the mobo is alright!

The soundcard rocks, yes. I just changed it from IRQ 5 to IRQ 7 because I read exactly the opposite of what you said. I read that SB card started off with IRQ 7, but people had conflicts with LPT port (which also wants IRQ 7), so later cards switched to IRQ 5. I read that some of the games developed during the early period were hard coded for IRQ 7 instead of 5 and can experience issues if using something other than IRQ 7! No matter, I have tried both IRQ settings and neither let me past the first frame. The only thing that did was setting the "-si" PC speaker switch. BTW- I used diagnose.exe to change the PNP IRQ setting for my card and am forced to use the "diagnose /s" in my config to set the IRQ tomy blaster environment on boot.

ATI Rage is overkill, but I need it for the newer games and it works with everything else (this setup works with everything else) like Ultima 7, 8, One Must Fall 2097, Descent 1-3, all old ID games, 7th Guest series, Slipstream 5000, Day of the Tentacle, etc. I even got Search and Rescue, or whatever that other Learning Company game that's older (from 1988 or 89 I believe), to work!

Yes, cluster size is wasteful, but no worries, I have more than enough room for everything. I relaized that after I set everything up! It's been awhile! lol

*** I do use multi-config booting in DOS. Here's what I have for my config files. Any suggestions?:

autoexec.bat:

PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
REM SET SOUND=C:\VIBRA16
LH C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
REM C:\VIBRA16\MIXERSET /P /Q
LH C:\DOS\MOUSE.COM
REM SET MSINPUT=C:\MSINPUT

GOTO %CONFIG%

:NORMAL
C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
GOTO END

:OLDGAMES
D:
CD GAMES
DIR/W/AD
GOTO END

:GAMES
C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
D:
CD GAMES
DIR/W/AD
GOTO END

:END

config.sys:

[MENU]
MENUCOLOR=7,0
MENUITEM=NORMAL,All Purpose w/DOS CD-ROM Support
MENUITEM=OLDGAMES,Classic Gaming w/o DOS CD-ROM Support
MENUITEM=GAMES,Gaming w/DOS CD-ROM Support
MENUDEFAULT=NORMAL,10

[COMMON]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40

[NORMAL]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICE=C:\MTM\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01

[OLDGAMES]

[GAMES]
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICE=C:\MTM\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01

[COMMON]
REM DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\VIBRA16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:7 D:1 H:5
REM DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS

PLEASE ADVISE! THANKS!

Originally Posted by dosraider

..........
Pentium 3 733MHz CPU -> totall overkill
256MB PC133 RAM @ 100MHz -> total overkill, but *shouldn't* hurt as MSDos only uses 64Mb, though some older games will choke on that speed.
Gigabyte ga-6vxc7-4x motherboard (with ISA slot!) -> can do
Vibra 16 CT2260 (OEM CT2230) ISA soundcard (IRQ 7 - DMA 1,5) -> nice but ....***
ATI Rage Ultra 128 AGP (running at 1x AGP) -> total overkill
Two HDDs (one 10GB and one 40GB) -> 2 Gb partitions for Dos??? What a waste of space (clustersize !!!!!!)

I am dual booting DOS 6.22 with enhanced tools -> get rid of those 'enhanced tools, only gives compability troubles with older dosgames. Eventually make a dosbootmenu with different configs...

II have tried the "-sb" and "-gv" switches with no success. *** -> Think you should set soundcard IRQ to 5, many older games expect it to be 5, the IRQ 7 was used later....

I use "slowdown.com" to eat up CPU. -> And another TSR running on the background ... :/

[The Fifth Horseman]

256MB PC133 RAM @ 100MHz -> total overkill, but *shouldn't* hurt as MSDos only uses 64Mb, though some older games will choke on that speed.
Can't agree. For some older games *there is* such a thing as too much memory. Try running Space Hulk on 32 MB RAM and you'll see what I mean.

ATI Rage Ultra 128 AGP (running at 1x AGP) -> total overkill
True. I wonder if he should consider using a PCI graphics card.

I am dual booting DOS 6.22 with enhanced tools -> get rid of those 'enhanced tools, only gives compability troubles with older dosgames. Eventually make a dosbootmenu with different configs...
Or just a bunch of batch files (possibly with built-in menus). Thats what I did back on my first PC.

II have tried the "-sb" and "-gv" switches with no success. *** -> Think you should set soundcard IRQ to 5, many older games expect it to be 5, the IRQ 7 was used later.... Perhaps the switch for sound blaster sound requires some additional parameters, like adress, IRQ and DMA? Quite possibly also the sound blaster version.

I use "slowdown.com" to eat up CPU. -> And another TSR running on the background ... :/
True, but sometimes there just is no other way of getting the games to run at the proper speed short of using a proper 486 system. Hell... sometimes not even then.

[dosraider]

At first glance:
Missing a menu with emm386.exe NOEMS and a 'clean' boot, with as less as possible loaded -( in fact nothing at all)-.

Smartdrive: ditch that, completely useless on such mobo.

More LH and DEVICEHIGH wouldn't hurt.

And when you need EMS (expanded mem) restrict it to some 2048, is usually more then enough.

[raekwonchef]

See my posting right above this one with my config files. Also, over at the Underdogs, similar issues have been experienced by others with the game although they abandoned figuring it out prematurely. I know my hardware is way over spec, but like I said, this is one of the only games I have had trouble with. I wonder how the others, aside from Rescue, will work... Even with the TSR in memory, Inever have problems (its very small). Let me know and thanks for your help!

[raekwonchef]

Originally Posted by dosraider

At first glance:
Missing a menu with emm386.exe NOEMS

And when you need EMS (expanded mem) restrict it to some 2048, is usually more then enough.

Can I load emm386 with himem.sys? How should it look. I forget this stuff!

[dosraider]

You already do that, your [common] has himem......
Common is always used.
But I never used 'common', it's a lazy mans option.


[NORMAL]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\MTM\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01
LASTDRIVE=



Autoexec:

PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\;C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\temp
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
GOTO %CONFIG%

:NORMAL
LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
LH C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
LH C:\DOS\MOUSE.COM
GOTO END

Could be one.

BTW, do you really need that Vibra diagnose? Don't think so, but can be wrong, it's for me also long ago ....

And if you're handy enough, make a W98 bootdisk and use those CD drivers, or look around on the net, there are much smaller, better and universal drivers than those you use.

And create a temp dir, use that instead of your dos dir.

[raekwonchef]

Originally Posted by dosraider

BTW, do you really need that Vibra diagnose? Don't think so, but can be wrong, it's for me also long ago ....

Thanks for your response and as far as can tell, the default IRQ for my card is 5. To change the IRQ, I had to use "diagnose.exe" as the IRQ is set PNP (many of the other settings are not). I tried setting it with "diagnose.exe" and then rebooting, but the IRQ did not change. I noticed that after using the "diagnose.exe", it modifies system files including the "autoexec.bat" and "config.sys". I noticed the "diagnose.exe /s" in there, so I looked up the "/s" command and it said "Sets the IRQ and other card settings based on the SET BLASTER settings" or something like. I made the change and now my other games work right using IRQ 7. It appears this is need to set the card's IRQ on load (apparently it can't be changed permanently?).

Dosraider too,

Okay, I changed my config files again and will post them below. I tried booting with only HIMEM and EMM386 both limited to "2048 RAM" and "NOEMS". It seems whenever Operation Neptune is loaded with emm386 loaded, it freezes (regardless of the advanced options set). I did not even make it to the first frame this time (froze at the prompt after I hit enter). I also tried a clean boot (loading absolutely nothing) and it still did the same thing (game ran it froze when I hit ESC or waited to hit enter after the intro a explained before). I also removed all blaster settings, mouse (everything else too) when trying these boots only loading HIMEM and EMM386. No luck. Here are my files now and what I loaded to test:

config.sys:

[MENU]
MENUCOLOR=7,0
MENUITEM=NORMAL,Regular w/DOS CD-ROM Support
MENUITEM=OLDGAMES,Classic Gaming (U7, U8, Crusader) w/o CD Support
MENUITEM=GAMES,Classic Gaming (Slipstream, DoTT, Descent) w/DOS CD Support
MENUITEM=EMS,Classic Gaming Requiring EMS (2048 RAM SET)
MENUITEM=NOEMS,Classic Gaming Requiring no EMS (NOEMS SET)
MENUITEM=CLEAN,Clean DOS boot
MENUDEFAULT=NORMAL,10

[COMMON]
REM DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\VIBRA16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:7 D:1 H:5
REM DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS

[NORMAL]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE 4096 RAM
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICEHIGH=C:\MTM\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01

[OLDGAMES]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40

[GAMES]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICEHIGH=C:\MTM\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01

[EMS]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE 4096 RAM
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40

[NOEMS]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH, UMB
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40

[CLEAN]

[COMMON]

autoexec.bat:

REM SET SOUND=C:\VIBRA16
REM C:\VIBRA16\MIXERSET /P /Q
REM SET MSINPUT=C:\MSINPUT

GOTO %CONFIG%

:NORMAL
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP;
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
LH C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
LH C:\DOS\MOUSE.COM
GOTO END

:OLDGAMES
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP;
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
LH C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
LH C:\DOS\MOUSE.COM
D:
CD GAMES
DIR/W/AD
GOTO END

:GAMES
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP;
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
LH C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
LH C:\DOS\MOUSE.COM
D:
CD GAMES
DIR/W/AD
GOTO END

:EMS
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP;
D:
CD GAMES
DIR/W/AD
GOTO END

:NOEMS
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP;
D:
CD GAMES
DIR/W/AD
GOTO END

:CLEAN
PATH=C:\DOS;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
GOTO END

:END

Any and all sugestions/help is greatly appreciated! Thanks, guys!