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[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Puffin@Nov 28 2004, 06:00 PM
I know that I'm a kid from hell. Wow, I'm the kid nobody wishes to have. Seriously. I'm messed up. Sometimes I take some phases, where I'm really evil, towards everybody. It lasts for weeks, sometimes. But my parents never lay a hand on me.

I think this could prove a point... :whistle:

[Puffin]

Well, I'm just saying, that even though I'm a bit crazy at times, they don't lay a hand. Maybe that makes me harder to controll, I don't know. But if they would lay hands on me, that wouldn't stop me. (Now I'm just talking for myself, it might be different with others), I would keep on fighting. Get more pissed. Because that's not the way to stop kids / people.

But hey, that's just my opinion...

If the children are educated from beginning on in the right way, there's never a need to hit them. And they never will hit their parents either.
It's just the matter of loving your children, not being stranger to them. Because they feel when their parents don't care for them and then they often search the company of their schoolmates and this doesn't teach them in the right way. And many parents today simply have no idea how to teach their children...

[Maerlyn]

See, i was right i just said it in a less than completely serious manner on the original thread.

Now we can all agree that i am great.

I love you all, even Wael.

[Sebatianos]

Well I guess we all basically agree...
In a normal situation there's no reason to hit a child.
If a parent has enough athoriti over a child then the raising is succesful and athority is not achieved thoruh physical punishment.
But could you really blame a parent if a child is careless and almost jumps in front of a car, if the parent would pull him back by the hair and not let go at the very second the child would be back on the pavemant?
That would not be mistreating a child...
It would just be a reflex reaction - like let's say putting your hands up if something is flying toward you...

You can always think on it before you do something.

[The Niles]

There is a major difference between a correctional slap and beating a child. One is a way of raising a child and the other is child abuse.

Combating child abuse is a worthy goal indeed but trying to push for a ban on slapping your children (slapping a child by teachers is illegal in most western European countries) will not accomplish this as the two are so different.
In Germany a ban on slapping your children is already in place and a recent study has shown that the number of parents that occasionally slap their children has gone down by 40%. Great you might say but the same report showed that child abuse had not gone down at all.
Child abuse is caused by other factors like alcohol abuse and poverty.

I believe that the state should not, and have no right to, intervene in what is in essence a personal matter, raising a child.

[wormpaul]

Originally posted by The Picard@Nov 28 2004, 08:09 PM
I believe that the state should not, and have no right to, intervene in what is in essence a personal matter, raising a child.

Indeed...

But they must set a limit...that`s the only thing they should keep there eye on..

All bewteen the lines is for the parents self

[The Niles]

Originally posted by wormpaul@Nov 28 2004, 08:10 PM
But they must set a limit...that`s the only thing they should keep there eye on..

All bewteen the lines is for the parents self

You do not understand what I am saying.

This is what I mean. Raising a child is a matter for the parent(s) themsel(f/ves) to decide how to do. A state should not intervene in this.
Childabuse is so different from a correctional slap the two cannot ever be mistaken for the other and never does a slap evolve over time into abuse.
Since Childabuse is so different from correctional slapping we can say that childabuse is not a part of raising a child. Childabuse is not a choice by parents of a way to raise their children but something completely appart from, and different to, raising a child. As childabuse is not a part of raising a child it does not fall under the "the State should not intervene in the raising of a child" rule. Childabuse, of course, is a matter in which the state should intervene on behalf of the child.

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by The Picard@Nov 28 2004, 10:09 PM
I believe that the state should not, and have no right to, intervene in what is in essence a personal matter, raising a child.

I generally agree with your comment except for two points:
-the state should have some right to interfear. After all no one is really preparing parents to be parents and no one is teaching them how to raise children. That's what the state should do.
-teachers should be alowed to have a bit more influence within the family (at least from my own experiance - I'm saying that because I am a teacher). There are many children complaining to me about their situation at home. As a teacher I am trained and capable of understanding the children mentality, finding out what the real trouble is and would even be able to find a solution to it - but I'm not allowed to step in. I must watch mistakes parents make with their children daily (mistakes - not abuse, there I could and would do something about it) but must keep quiet...