«

[Smiling Spectre]

I have first 100 of Twilight collection discs - it was uploaded once on one of sites. Even if CD-part is somewhat damaged.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

I have first 100 of Twilight collection discs - it was uploaded once on one of sites. Even if CD-part is somewhat damaged.

They are still available because they are archived.

There was similar collection from Russia, can't remember name. I know I have ISOs somewhere.

[Smiling Spectre]

Two collections even, but much less in scope. Classic Fond (~60 CDs) and Crazy Collection (~25).

And five metric tons of derivatives that "borrowed" design and often games from two above.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Two collections even, but much less in scope. Classic Fond (~60 CDs) and Crazy Collection (~25).

And five metric tons of derivatives that "borrowed" design and often games from two above.

Yes, it was Classic Fond.

It is available as well.

Sorry to derail your topic, twillight. Carry on.

[twillight]

You are a lazy person, who wants to do half the work, but double the money?
Ever considered if the endboss would be a common enemy on lvl 1?
Do you want to include "more item" to ensure the player gets something REALY shitty instead of getting more powerful?
You want to be cheered as innovative while being the worst?



Just call your product "rogue like"! That'll teach 'em!

[Smiling Spectre]

You are too harsh. While BoI (in it's last incarnation at least) can be quite unfair, in most cases it's still totally playable, solvable and enjoyable. Don't use random modifiers, if you want to play for sure (and found what items means in the first place by trial and error).

[twillight]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

You are too harsh. While BoI (in it's last incarnation at least) can be quite unfair, in most cases it's still totally playable, solvable and enjoyable. Don't use random modifiers, if you want to play for sure (and found what items means in the first place by trial and error).

What "random modifiers"?


9 out of 10 times I get small rooms with hordes of enemies, total lack of healing, and to be honest the design of enemies/rooms are entirely lacking, blurring things like "ye,you do stuff, whatever". Entirely lack feeling of progress.
The fact that the random is also present for the story told in the cutseensmakes the whole thing a joke.


You get no description of any of the 1,000 items makes them a big middle-finger, and the item-effect is like not even present. Sure, 1:100 chance for a +1 lifebulb item (for one of the unlocks you need to collect these random shits 7 times in 1 game - good luck with that), but the others are just nothing.
Your weapon does not get improved.
The active items are just plain shit (I saw 1, and only 1 useful stuff, it revealed the map of the level, still no help for fighting).
The consumables are at leas half the times are only cosmetics, and most didn't even made into the game's wiki they are such shit.


So the enemies/rooms don't differ, you don't get stronger, and by conept everything is a pile of shit. Did I miss anything?
If I could at least keep my items, but noooo, that'd be like doing progress! Youget 3 lifebulbs, and you have to pass 13+ times this unfair pile of crap, like the intention was to make Ghosts'n'Goblins 2!

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by twillight

What "random modifiers"?

Um, there are several rooms where you can exchange current items for something random. Terribly random. Not my sort of gamble, but sometimes, when you have extremely sucking equip, it works.

Which version do you play? Because your explanation badly discrepant with what I can see.

Steam has:
Binding of Isaac - original (actually, like, 3rd incarnation of original, with twice rebuilded engine).

BoS: Rebirth. New engine, new "big" rooms, rebalanced items, ton of new stuff.

BoS:R - Afterbirth. Technically, add-on to second one, but it heavily rebalanced game and add many random/special stuff. Not recommended for novices.

But any of them not exactly matches your description.

9 out of 10 times I get small rooms with hordes of enemies, total lack of healing, and to be honest the design of enemies/rooms are entirely lacking, blurring things like "ye,you do stuff, whatever". Entirely lack feeling of progress.

Um, no. Initially you have quite low amount of enemies, and every level rises difficulty slightly more. Things become really struggling somewhere about L10 and up. And I have terrible reflexes, mind you.

And there are _a lot_ of healing. Red hearts replenish a life, and omnipresent. Blue hearts works like shield, quite common, and limited to 20, I believe. White hearts works like blue, but can "regen" to full red heart, if not damaged for level. Black hearts the same as blue, but "blown" on destroy, damaging everyone around.

One thing, maybe: game intended initially to play from keyboard - one hand for moving, second for firing. Gamepad, added lately, works perfect with it too. Mouse highly NOT recommended. Too hard to fire.

The fact that the random is also present for the story told in the cutseensmakes the whole thing a joke.

It's not story. It's "lore", maybe. Story is almost non-existant, if not count intro movie and boss wins. (_Real_ bosses, I mean. At the end of walkthru).

You get no description of any of the 1,000 items makes them a big middle-finger, and the item-effect is like not even present.

Umm, no. In-game encyclopedia have short description of every equip item you found. _After_ you wear it, unfortunately. Active items are described too, but more cryptic way. Pills are randomized, so no description. Tarot is fixed, but haven't proper description anyway - memorize or write it. Jingamabobs gives the same subtle effect each time, but it's supposed that you'll figure effect by yourself (or check wiki .

Anyway, you can change everything, except equip, almost anytime, so it's not really too bad.

Sure, 1:100 chance for a +1 lifebulb item (for one of the unlocks you need to collect these random shits 7 times in 1 game - good luck with that), but the others are just nothing.

Um, I haven't game in hand (it's at home, and I am at work), but I am positively sure that it is about metric ton of +1 life. And why all this weapons, effects, shields, etc. you treat as "just nothing" is mystery for me.

Your weapon does not get improved.

Wrong. You can change weapons quite often. And there are a lot positive (and sometimes negative) modifiers from equip. Try to press Esc during game. It shows attack-damage-speed of character, and I am sure, you'll found how exactly it changes from different equip.

The active items are just plain shit (I saw 1, and only 1 useful stuff, it revealed the map of the level, still no help for fighting).

Um, "active" items are right from weapon in original, upper-left corner in Rebirth, they charged for each won room, right? From memory I can remember time-limited hero transformation, free lives, free tarot card, randomized teleportation, bombs... No, I cannot remember _totally_ useless items, even if half of them are niche using, or not very useful due randomization of effect.

The consumables are at leas half the times are only cosmetics, and most didn't even made into the game's wiki they are such shit.

Yes, as I remember, consumables falls either in pill category (terribly random, and randomized each game) or tarot (not in wiki). Tarot is very useful, actually - if you know what cards do.

So the enemies/rooms don't differ, you don't get stronger, and by conept everything is a pile of shit. Did I miss anything?

Looks like you missed half of this shit.

1. Every level has guaranteed 3 special rooms: free upgrade/weapon (beyond locked door though); store where you can buy something for coins; and boss room (another guaranteed upgrade/weapon). So you most probably will rise in power with each level. There is also often (maybe always) hidden room with additional prize, but if you haven't full map upgrade, you can only guess it's position.

2. Bombs broke stones. Some stones (specifically marked) have prizes and chests. Your fire kills fires (unintuitive, I know), and destroys shit - there can be prizes here too. You can try to blow up other things too, and see for effects...

Youget 3 lifebulbs,

Actually, if you unlocked different characters, you can get more than 3 lifes...

and you have to pass 13+ times this unfair pile of crap, like the intention was to make Ghosts'n'Goblins 2!

Um, basically, yes, intention of almost every roguelike is finish the game in one pass. And _accumulating_ stuff (that BoI does) actually is step back, to mainstream...

Anyway, checking side-by-side original BoI and Rebirth, I think, you'll be happier with Rebirth. It's much more forgiving, and gives you more, right from the start. It have more modifiers too and streamlined the weapon.

[twillight]

Except you live in a misconception-world.


1) BoI is an amateur level proto-version of the complete game. Afterbirth+ is the complete, finished product.


2) I don't know what you played, but there are only 5 stages in story mode, and I guess 1 stage for Greedey mode. There is no "level 10". Especialy that the character does not level up.


2) a) There's also they fact that even at Stage 1 you constantly run into 10enemy headspawn smell rooms, or lirger but full or rocks room with large amount of shooting enemies, or even vortexes. Not fun.


2) b) sry, I can't distinguish "piece of shit", "slightly bigger piece of shit", "burning slightly bigger piece of shit" and "burining slightly biggerpiece of shit wihich spawns a mini-shit when it dies" or "burining slightly biggerpiece of shit wihich spawns a mini-shit which shoots when it dies". They are for my eyes/mind 1 enemy. Even Mortal Kombat had the decency to add different colours to its ninjas.


3) In-game encyclopedia worth shit. It calls things "wassis", "whachamacalling" "thing", "thingy", "stuff" and so on. Not helping.
A REAL Encyclopedia gives ingame functions and stats. This is garbage. It is actualy scary some gamer tries to defend this habbit.


Btw, I've seen no shields. Seen no effect from perma-items, and 2:3 couldn't figure out what effect-items do (probably nothing).


4) Fact is,your weapon does not get improved. You have a chance, through items, to get some effect on your weapon (like twice rapid shooting for half the damage - thankyou oh-so-much you piece of shit for nothing), but it does not get better just because you advance in the game.


5) "I can remember time-limited hero transformation, free lives, free tarot card, randomized teleportation, bombs..."


Fuck your "transformation" (skin change, not even permanent), fuck your useless bomb, either case not seen any from 50 runs. My items made the screen purple, and little hearts floated from the enemy, which otherwise acted the same way, held up a vortex-sign for 0.5 second with no avail, and other entirely useless things, if at all anything.


"Tarot is very useful, actually - if you know what cards do." - but the game does not tell you. Perfect sign of holding a shitty game.


Oh, and fuck your store. Avarage I get 1 coin per stage, differing between 0-3. Items in the shop cost 1 key (always trouble to find any), and at least 5, at worst - as far as I can tell - 25 coins. The entire place is useless, and likely contians some shitty machine I tend to accidently bump into, taking my coins and hearts. Fuck them. Of course they give back nothing. Ever. What did I expect.



"Actually, if you unlocked different characters," - you get even less hearts! I unlocked 2 characters, and they are entirely garbage. All stats are weaker than Isaac, and their "special" is worthless.



roguelike = unfinished piece of shit, avoid like plague


PS: I saw 1,and only 1 "roguelike" which was playable - then they deleted its wiki. That point on it's like playing Super Pitfall, or Milon's Secret Castle. And those are shit.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by twillight

Except you live in a misconception-world.

Well, I can say the same about you. But I played AB, like, half-year ago. I'll try totally fresh run, especially for you, and will tell my experience. I am not prepare to deal with your experience right now, as it harshly different from what I remember.

See you later!