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[McGroin]

I hope this isnt old news here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality

I just read about this at www.pvponline.com savetheinternet

I'm not a paranoid kind of person, but this has me deeply concerned.
Acts like COPE threathen the existence of sites just like Abandonia.

Get involved, spread the word

[Stebbi]

erm Feck the what?

[a1s]

well I suppose internet is allready buildt with the idea of "network neutrality", maybe not absolutely but to a very high degree.
and I have to ask how does [lack of?] network neutrality threaten abandonia in any reasnable way?
and lastly what do you propose we do about it.

P.S.

erm Feck the what?

in short network neutrality is the concept that a network (in our case the internet) has to both treat all it's users equaly (in terms of data transfer priority) and allow connection from any one point of the net to any other.

[McGroin]

and I have to ask how does [lack of?] network neutrality threaten abandonia in any reasnable way?
and lastly what do you propose we do about it.

Well here's how I understand it: You're ISPs pretty much want to regulate the internet under their control, and they want to accomplish this by deciding what content is or is not available to you. And the content they choose may be decided by whether or not a website decides to pay for their services. Say Google(for exampl sake)doesnt pay for the ISP services, well that ISP can slow down your access to google to a crawl, or just revert you to a competiting search engine, without your permission.
What to do?
It sounds lame, but use your voice, tell everyone else around the web, mostly inform your senator/representative that this is a terrible bill.
I dont trust the Telecomm companies, especially if they promised each website to be charged no more than a buck.

[Titan]

Then you choose another ISP. Called the power of the consumer.

[punch999]

Originally posted by Titan@May 14 2006, 08:31 PM
Then you choose another ISP. Called the power of the consumer.

Exactly what I was going to say

[a1s]

he seems to use the same expressions and examples (thank god not the same text) as the site he provided. I say he's barinwashed. :whistle:
seriosuly though, allowing market to decide what is right is the right thing to do, jou just have to remmber that you are part of it too (and like has been said times and times before- if you opose something, don't support it with your money).

[plix]

Originally posted by Titan+May 14 2006, 07:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Titan @ May 14 2006, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Then you choose another ISP. Called the power of the consumer. [/b]

...and this is called racketeering, plain and simple. It artificially harms -- for example -- Google's business due to no fault of Google. It's been illegal for a long, long time. Your proposed solution shifts the burden to the consumer, which is ridiculous. I'm a Libertarian and even *I* don't suggest that the free market is the solution to organized crime.

<!--QuoteBegin-McGroin
You're ISPs pretty much want to regulate the internet under their control, and they want to accomplish this by deciding what content is or is not available to you.[/quote]
That's not entirely true. By being able to restrict access to certain things a provider loses it's common carrier status, a gamble which no major ISP is stupid enough to take. What they are talking about, however, is "prioritizing" certain web properties over others (by degrading access to *everything* unprioritized). What it breaks down to, really, is that the ISPs don't care about control; rather, they care about double-charging service providers such as Google (once for the upstream bandwidth or peering and then again for priority access).

[McGroin]

he seems to use the same expressions and examples (thank god not the same text) as the site he provided.

yup, sure did, heck i'm not very good at paraphrasing should've just copy and pasted.

I say he's barinwashed.

nope. Just happen to believe the internet is doin just fine, and regulation would just muck things up. So I've taken a stand on the matter, does that bother you?

Where has your cynicism gotten you today?

[guesst]

Originally posted by #Alex#+May 15 2006, 12:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (#Alex# @ May 15 2006, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Titan@May 14 2006, 08:31 PM
Then you choose another ISP. Called the power of the consumer.

Exactly what I was going to say [/b][/quote]

...if you opose something, don't support it with your money....

For those who don't like alot of words, here's the quick sum up of what follows:

You have no idea how bad an idea it is to think that you can sit on your recliner and think your money will talk for you. You stand to lose everything you value with this mind set.

You guys don't seem to realize that what you're saying here is pretty laissez faire. I'd also be so bold as to say you probably don't understand the implications of what you're talking about.

Laissez faire is the idea that the system will control itself. Remember the depression? "Which depression", you ask? THE DEPRESSION. The "great" one. Everyone thought that some invisible hand would guide the system to correct the developing problems that was threatening America's economic system and that eventually everything would get better. But things just got worse and worse. In the end it took some major intervention to bring America out of it. Intervention that is constantly keeping America teetering on the edge of ruin that if we had our own way we'd go crashing towards like a dog in heat on the closest available leg.

If one business does it, and another gets data telling them it's a good idea, even if (and especially if) it really isn't, it doesn't matter. It will spread like pet rocks and before you can say, "let's talk about this for a sec," every major ISP will use it. You will be unable to find a free ISP without major inconvenience to you. I'm talking the sort of inconvenience that most people just aren't willing to overcome. In other words enough people will be willing to live with it that it will endure. Sorry. Game over. It's a part of life now. You've just been slapped by that invisible hand you thought would help you out.

For better or worse, it's nearly impossible to get a business to drop something they've taken the time to invest in without major, nearly unmendable financial downturn or legal intervention. Once they get an idea in their collective heads, we're stuck with it. A few examples of bad ideas that we're living with that should hit close to home: Video game companies having to purchase shelf space. StarForce. Copy protection in general (it just gets cracked anyways). Subervisive data collection (ie spyware). Etc. Those are just in the video game industry.

So don't just sit on your keister and think you can hop ISPs and change the world. This thing has got to be nipped in the bud. Do something and do it now. It doesn't take long to write your congress person and/or senate representative. Let the people who can do something know that this is and must remain unacceptable. Righting wrongs is not a passive process.

If you oppose something, stand in opposition to it.