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[Smiling Spectre]

Well, it have soundtracks, indeed.

Unfortunately, there is one serious problem... MK1-3 sold on GOG. I believe, it closes question for the Abandonia.

[patryckslasher]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Well, it have soundtracks, indeed.

Unfortunately, there is one serious problem... MK1-3 sold on GOG. I believe, it closes question for the Abandonia.

http://www.gog.com/game/mortal_kombat_123
Even though it's the DOS version, yes, it's being sold...

[oldskoolgamer]

I know the DOS version of MK3 is now available from GoG, but wonder how that applies to the Windows version which has no relation to it and is not on sale anywhere? Perhaps a mod can clarify?

[Japo]

So many generations of mods passed by... like tears in the rain )
Barring finding Tom and asking him, I assume GOG could get mad at us if we provided illegally the Windows port of the game they got licensed, no matter how different it actually is on the back end.

[oldskoolgamer]

Originally Posted by Japo

I assume GOG could get mad at us if we provided illegally the Windows port of the game they got licensed, no matter how different it actually is on the back end.

Pardon me, but what a big load of crap. GoG will get mad at Abandonia for providing the not sold, long abandoned, completely different gameplay-wise Windows version of a DOS game they now sell (MK3)?

But apparently they will not get mad at Abandonia for still providing floppy versions of MK 1 and 2 for download right besides their Buy It! links? How different are those from the versions GoG sells? I bet 99.9% of the people don't care about the CD soundtracks for these fighting games, and the actual floppy binaries are likely 100% the same as what GoG's selling.

They will not get mad at Abandonia for boldly inviting people right below the Buy It! links for MK 1 and 2 (and at the bottom of the MK 3 and Trilogy reviews) to download full CD images from the ISO Cellar?

What sort of blatant hypocrisy is this?

[Japo]

There's no hypocrisy and it's not half as bad as your rude tone.

We withdraw downloads one at a time when we realize or someone requests or reports them. I can take care to remove these downloads you mention, but today it's time for me to sleep.

[oldskoolgamer]

Originally Posted by Japo

There's no hypocrisy and it's not half as bad as your rude tone.

We withdraw downloads one at a time when we realize or someone requests or reports them. I can take care to remove these downloads you mention, but today it's time for me to sleep.

Just to be clear, I was being brutally frank but despite my use of the word 'hypocrisy' it was not my intention to be rude. What I am is puzzled and that was what I was trying to convey, because there seems to be a large discrepancy in dealing with one thing versus another, and those download links (and ISO mentions) are right next to the buy links and I couldn't understand how they might have been possibly overlooked.

Let me also point out that GoG has no right to be mad at Abandonia, because even if they have temporarily obtained publishing rights for the games from Midway/NetherRealm Studios/Warner Bros. Entertainment, they are not the copyright holders (NRS/WB is). Speaking of copyright, has Midway/NRS/WB so far in all these years ever contacted Abandonia to take the MK games down? Obviously not. Not to mention the games are available all over the net and it would be futile to suddenly wake up and try to take every copy down, and they know this. Also the costs would be a lot more than what they will ever make selling these old games.

Forget these ancient versions, WB even cancelled the proposed HD remake because they knew it would hardly sell in large numbers considering all enthusiasts of the franchise have bought and played the games to death already on multiple platforms.

So finally what it boils down to is that you guys are voluntarily taking the old versions down despite the copyright holder not giving a damn. This makes absolutely no sense to me, because if one wants to be a stickler for the law then so-called 'abandonware' is still under copyright and the copies of non-free games on the site are all illegal and pirated. Anyway, the choice is entirely yours of course, but personally given everything else on this site I see no problem with also making the MK games available unless WB ever happens to send you guys a DMCA takedown notice. At the very least I see no reason why the Windows version of MK3 should not be allowed given that no-one is selling it or has sold it for years now.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by oldskoolgamer

Just to be clear, I was being brutally frank but despite my use of the word 'hypocrisy' it was not my intention to be rude. What I am is puzzled and that was what I was trying to convey, because there seems to be a large discrepancy in dealing with one thing versus another, and those download links (and ISO mentions) are right next to the buy links and I couldn't understand how they might have been possibly overlooked.

As Japo already mentioned, site is in bad state, quite for a long time. So everything works by request. Not automatically. One man removes "download" link from main site, another kills correspondent link in forums, third will kill mentioned floppies in extras. If you think that for every _possible_ copyright notice we must thoroughly search all site for possible link - you are right. Theoretically speaking. Reality can be different - but not because we intentionally does it.

Let me also point out that GoG has no right to be mad at Abandonia, because even if they have temporarily obtained publishing rights for the games from Midway/NetherRealm Studios/Warner Bros.

In reality it's not all smiles and rainbows. GOG recently put on sale System Shock 1. And know what? Full System Shock node on Abandonia, with English review and all extras, was killed silently by Abovo, by GOG request, and I personally had to reconstruct it back. Do you want _this_ way of things? If we will not be careful, we will get it. Regardless of what _you_ thinks about copyright holders.

So finally what it boils down to is that you guys are voluntarily taking the old versions down despite the copyright holder not giving a damn.

Problem is, whole copyright system is blind colossus that can utterly destroy everything that got his attention, willingly or occasionally, regardless of actual crimes. And GOG _already proven_ itself to have attention about games that it sells. I was participating in one abandonware site, Underground Gamer. They was extra-careful, had closed registration and never published any game newer than ten years old. And it was torrent site, so, strictly speaking, they didn't publish anything at all!

And site was killed in a week after report of some suspicious game (if I am not mistake, it was Disney note, but I am not sure).

Do you want Abandonia to be killed this way? I am not. So let sleeping dogs lie.

[oldskoolgamer]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

As Japo already mentioned, site is in bad state, quite for a long time. So everything works by request. Not automatically. One man removes "download" link from main site, another kills correspondent link in forums, third will kill mentioned floppies in extras. If you think that for every _possible_ copyright notice we must thoroughly search all site for possible link - you are right. Theoretically speaking. Reality can be different - but not because we intentionally does it.

Ok, since I'm not a regular visitor here I didn't know things were that bad. Still, one would expect that the person who kills one link would at least look at others on the same page, because otherwise for visitors like me it presents a real incongruous picture and leaves us confused. More importantly, does this sort of oversight not leave the site open to action?

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

In reality it's not all smiles and rainbows. GOG recently put on sale System Shock 1. And know what? Full System Shock node on Abandonia, with English review and all extras, was killed silently by Abovo, by GOG request, and I personally had to reconstruct it back. Do you want _this_ way of things?

Right, so first and foremost, was GoG making a simple polite request or demanding a takedown on legal grounds, i.e. with a DMCA notice? There is a difference, you know, again since GoG is not the copyright holder for the game. I can see you guys want to be extra careful, but the reaction of the mod as you yourself stated was ridiculously way over the top. Why would he delete everything associated with the game, including its review? Weird. Also, ever since GoG started selling MK have you heard a peep from them about the floppy and CD (ISO) version downloads which are clearly mentioned on the game pages?

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

If we will not be careful, we will get it. Regardless of what _you_ thinks about copyright holders.

Ok, once you guys have decided to remove the links after all (whether it's proactive or in response to a request from GoG), don't you yourself find it strange that despite the vital importance of being careful more attention is not being paid? Surely if the site's very existence depends on it then much more care is required? Maybe it's time to appoint some passionate dependable community members as new mods...

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Problem is, whole copyright system is blind colossus that can utterly destroy everything that got his attention, willingly or occasionally, regardless of actual crimes. And GOG _already proven_ itself to have attention about games that it sells. I was participating in one abandonware site, Underground Gamer. They was extra-careful, had closed registration and never published any game newer than ten years old. And it was torrent site, so, strictly speaking, they didn't publish anything at all!

And site was killed in a week after report of some suspicious game (if I am not mistake, it was Disney note, but I am not sure).

Do you want Abandonia to be killed this way? I am not. So let sleeping dogs lie.

Obviously I have no intention of seeing Abandonia being killed off, far from it. That said, with a site of this nature you must admit it is permanently on slippery ground anyway. Just as happened with UG, the same can happen any day here no matter how careful you try to be, if some copyright holder whose IP this site is illegally distributing decides to wake up and target it. I have more to say on this subject but will refrain because how you guys run the site is ultimately your choice, and it seems like just a few of you loyal members are running the show if the site's in such a bad state as you mention.

Thanks for reading and good luck with the site!

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by oldskoolgamer

Ok, since I'm not a regular visitor here I didn't know things were that bad. Still, one would expect that the person who kills one link would at least look at others on the same page

Wrong. It's one thing to find game page in browsing and put it into "sold" state (one tick, actually), and totally another is to read review, found link mentioned in it, and found another links for forum and extras. You need to actively search for it, because it's not the common practice to have game links right in the review - I am personally translated about hundred of reviews, and never seen it before. It also requires the different access levels in the different places, actually. (Status can be modified with "translator" level, extras - by full mod, and forum requires forum mod access).

More importantly, does this sort of oversight not leave the site open to action?

Yes, it is. But as it was never a real problem before, we was slightly more relaxed than it was safe. And actually thank you to draw our attention to it.

Right, so first and foremost, was GoG making a simple polite request or demanding a takedown on legal grounds, i.e. with a DMCA notice?

You are having slightly wrong picture, as I see.

1. Site was sold to Studentis then Abovo long ago. They are owners, and they benefits from site. And it was _their_ decision to kill review. I have no idea, if it was request or takedown - Abovo answered to Japo about copyright notice only when he asked what happened.

2. All people who you sees here are community. We have no money for our job, no credits and no authority, except those indirectly granted by Abovo. On the opposite site is Abovo itself that does almost nothing for site, except hosting it. Errors in engine persists for years, and communications are clogged. So don't be surprised that mods here are not exactly devoted to the job.

Maybe it's time to appoint some passionate dependable community members as new mods...

Problem is, site is very messy in its code and its access levels. I personally had to spend about month to fix the whole tag structure of site after it was accidentally destroyed in two hours by the simple careless translator, without much access rights - and I was horrified, because in reality there was hundreds of obsolete and duplicating tags just because of routine translator work. Also, after some error (and no one knows which one) link connection was broken altogether, so now any modification in English tag system automatically destroys all tags in all translation. And no, while Abovo knows it for years, it wasn't fixed so far. So it's very dangerous, unfortunately, and while passionate mods could be good for site, we are not telepaths to easily found such mod, and any error here can be fatal. :/

That said, with a site of this nature you must admit it is permanently on slippery ground anyway. Just as happened with UG, the same can happen any day here no matter how careful you try to be

Yes, of course. But it's like miner work: if you have the chance to be blown up in the any hour of your work, it not means that you must be careless and ignore safety altogether.

Thanks for reading and good luck with the site!

And thank you for seemingly understanding the problems.