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[gregor]

It seemes bigger and bigger problem (well in most EU countries at least).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4768644.stm


Is there a way to increase it in a nice democratic manner? How?

We for example have multiple ways that are supposed to help but in fact are not really helping. One of them is long maternity leave - good for having children, but harder for women to get work.

Also i was just thinking i am young and i invested heavilly this year into education. However the government f*ucked me up and now instead of getting some of that money back i will have to pay for the tax. Also my salary is too low to get a small one room appartment let alone to have children.

I think everyone should have an option to get a descent place to live in, flexible work time and also women should be more equal when they search for job. And also the attitude toward having children should change.

The way it is now people look strange at those who have 3 children, but they get upset when they find out taxes are raised to pay for elderly population.

[Rogue]

There was one proposal in Sweden I believe by their government officials to emit p0rn on regular television to fight low birthrate. That would be interesting.

I believe that this country does not give a muck ‘bout birthrate, and still has high one. Not much help for mothers here, like in Europe.

[a1s]

well here are a few thoughts:
1) let's give people money for having children (not just birth but as long as they have them up until they're 18).
counter argument: additional (has to be large for the whole thing to be effective) taxes.
2) many people are unsure about their childrens future, so how about free schools and universities, and state jobs for the young.
counter argument: basicaly none, this is a sound Idea for any socialist country (like those scandinavians). But this won't be very effective.
3)propaganda camapign. let's tell people - 3 children is Totaly Rad!
conter argument: do we really want an army of 16 yer old mothers? they can hardlly support themselves.
4) immigration. let's invite blacks and religious arabs. they'll get the population up. counter argument: Foreigners come and take our jobs and benefits away , need I say more?
5)afrodesiac in the food.
ounter argument: seting aside the posoblity of this being discovered. just how would one do that?

so to sum it up: I'm at loss.

[Tulac]

I don't see how porn will help, I mean people use protection while having sex, so even if porn will arouse them, it will not help them in having children (well planned children that is)...

[gregor]

Originally posted by a1s@Mar 27 2006, 12:05 PM

2) many people are unsure about their childrens future, so how about free schools and universities, and state jobs for the young.
counter argument: basicaly none, this is a sound Idea for any socialist country (like those scandinavians). But this won't be very effective.

we have it. not working...

[Grinder]

That's what I'm giving a presentation for my MSA (mittlerer Schulabschluss, there's no english word for it) on. Actually, just about the situation in Germany and the reasons etc., but at least it's something.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Tulac@Mar 27 2006, 07:34 AM
I don't see how porn will help, I mean people use protection while having sex, so even if porn will arouse them, it will not help them in having children (well planned children that is)...

Selling of defective protection might help in that case. LOL LOL LOL

[Sebatianos]

Nah, non of it will help.


1) No one is preparing you to be a parent. If you were to become a father in let's say a year - have you until now recieved any kind of information on the subject? When the pregnancy is there, there are some courses, but that's already after the child is on the way.

2) From the earliest childhood everybody is telling you on either how to enjoy the life or how to make a career. In order to enjoy life (selfishly) you can't share do it with a child (travelling, going to parties...). In order to have a succesfull career you shouldn't have children before you're 35 and then it's almost too late to have more then one.

3) As a part of growing up, you're constantly reminded to be careful NOT to become a parent. I realize how importaint it is to lear about contraception, but if they scare you with HAVING a BABY, the image of a child as a burden will stay with you.

4) With the emancipation less and less women wish to stay home and take care of the children. I'm not being sexist, but there are certain natural requirements for taking care of the children. One of them is that a woman needs to give birth and if possible breast feed the child. This simply doesn't go hand in hand with the image of a succesful emancipated woman they're trying to project - and even less with a "spanish novel starlette" wannabe (tall, skinny, ploting or crying and always either suduceen or being suduced).

5) Showing clubsy fathers who get pooped by babies doesn't help either. And almost every sitcom including a baby has that baby throw up, pee, or do something even worse to the father. Yes, such things happen, they're a part of life, but it's again anti-comertial for babies.

So - every way you look at it, the society is telling you - don't have children, you'll be worse off. Children will hinder you from fulfilling your dreams. Kids are nothing but mess making machines that drain your energy and so on.

And then the same society wonders why there's not more children?

[rlbell]

Originally posted by Sebatianos@Mar 27 2006, 06:33 PM
Nah, non of it will help.


1) No one is preparing you to be a parent. If you were to become a father in let's say a year - have you until now recieved any kind of information on the subject? When the pregnancy is there, there are some courses, but that's already after the child is on the way.

2) From the earliest childhood everybody is telling you on either how to enjoy the life or how to make a career. In order to enjoy life (selfishly) you can't share do it with a child (travelling, going to parties...). In order to have a succesfull career you shouldn't have children before you're 35 and then it's almost too late to have more then one.

3) As a part of growing up, you're constantly reminded to be careful NOT to become a parent. I realize how importaint it is to lear about contraception, but if they scare you with HAVING a BABY, the image of a child as a burden will stay with you.

4) With the emancipation less and less women wish to stay home and take care of the children. I'm not being sexist, but there are certain natural requirements for taking care of the children. One of them is that a woman needs to give birth and if possible breast feed the child. This simply doesn't go hand in hand with the image of a succesful emancipated woman they're trying to project - and even less with a "spanish novel starlette" wannabe (tall, skinny, ploting or crying and always either suduceen or being suduced).

5) Showing clubsy fathers who get pooped by babies doesn't help either. And almost every sitcom including a baby has that baby throw up, pee, or do something even worse to the father. Yes, such things happen, they're a part of life, but it's again anti-comertial for babies.

All very good reasons.

The only thing that I could add is that people seem to feel that everything has to be just perfect in life-- good job, good house, good preparation . . .

The problem with that attitude is that it can take forever to get your ducks in a row, and it is possible that it never happens. The end result is that only the wealthy and the poor actually start their families early enough to get the desired number of children. The wealthy feel they can spare no expense for their children and the poor have no ducks, so they just have kids.

Too many people feel that if things cannot be perfect, it would do the children an injustice to bring them into the world. I used to feel that way, but my wife brought me around to notice how well loved, well-fed, clothed, and housed children are not overly affected by the other trappings of poverty (Father: Are we poor, daughter? Child: No, but we don't have much money. [actual exchange with my child]).

[TheGiantMidgit]

In China, you and your spouse have one child. That's it. Extreme? Sure, but let's hope it works. The Asians, after all, pretty much outnumber the rest of you kids significantly.