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Old 20-11-2008, 12:17 AM   #11
Rogerwilco
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Well, this thread sure stayed on Subject..... Heh....

Um, in case you don't know....

Visual Basic for DOS is *not* anything like Visual basic.....
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Old 20-11-2008, 12:21 AM   #12
Rogerwilco
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Missed one again, slowcoder...... you done wrote

The location of specific data in a savefile can, depending on the game, be different on a save-by-save basis. You'd likely need to search the file dynamically to identify the proper location of the data to be changed. That source would also need to be provided to the user who requests it.


you use a compare routine.... There has to be some constant, or the game itself wouldn't know where to find the proper values in the saved game

Hope that helps

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Old 20-11-2008, 12:46 AM   #13
SlowCoder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerwilco View Post
Well, this thread sure stayed on Subject..... Heh....

Um, in case you don't know....

Visual Basic for DOS is *not* anything like Visual basic.....
You are very correct. Well, it is, but not by much. What kept me from using it is that you can't use the "VB" part in anything other that screen 0! OMG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerwilco View Post
Missed one again, slowcoder...... you done wrote

The location of specific data in a savefile can, depending on the game, be different on a save-by-save basis. You'd likely need to search the file dynamically to identify the proper location of the data to be changed. That source would also need to be provided to the user who requests it.
you use a compare routine.... There has to be some constant, or the game itself wouldn't know where to find the proper values in the saved game

Hope that helps

Rogerwilco and out
No. I don't think I missed it. I think I'm right on, still. But you're also right about the comparison routine. Sometimes, though, the routine needs to be able to compare binary to binary, not just text.

Many years ago (well, not THAT long ago in DOSRaider years ) I wrote some gamesave hacks myself in QuickBasic. My experience showed me that many gamesaves were done in binary to save space, as 5.25 disks didn't have much space. A bit saved is a bit earned!

Before we continue, please don't think I'm downing your attempt to help the community. I'm just arguing for argument sake.

Last edited by SlowCoder; 20-11-2008 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 20-11-2008, 02:15 AM   #14
Rogerwilco
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No. I don't think I missed it. I think I'm right on, still. But you're also right about the comparison routine. Sometimes, though, the routine needs to be able to compare binary to binary, not just text.

Many years ago (well, not THAT long ago in DOSRaider years ) I wrote some gamesave hacks myself in QuickBasic. My experience showed me that many gamesaves were done in binary to save space, as 5.25 disks didn't have much space. A bit saved is a bit earned!

Before we continue, please don't think I'm downing your attempt to help the community. I'm just arguing for argument sake.

Hey.
First off, no way do I think this is negative. Just having fun.

You penned:
Sometimes, though, the routine needs to be able to compare binary to binary, not just text.

Sorry, you lost me. the simple routine does compare binary to binary... if I understand you correctly that is: I'm an old, learn by doing guy, just plodded along and figured it out the Irish way....Heh....

Boy, and you're right on on the bit saved, etc. My first computer had 4k of memory..... I worked for a component company at the time, so i was able to wrangle the latest and greatest chips: 16k!

That's 16 Kilobytes, Folks. Not Megabytes

The Data storage was a modified cassette tape recorder....and you programmed in Basic....original Basic.....

Course I remember before that when called on Litton Memory Systems: they made the cutting edge stuff at the time: Core memory, which was tiny donut magnets with wires running through them..... spaghetti code abounded with all the goto's

One "unit" was one K bits....that's bits, not Bytes

But I digress..... Heh...flaws of the elderly.....
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Old 20-11-2008, 12:37 PM   #15
SlowCoder
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Heh, I'm not as aged as you, but looks like we've got some common interests! My first computer was the Coleco ADAM, with cassette drives and cartridge slot! I learned BASIC on it. The ADAM disappeared from our house when we got an XT machine. I still miss both machines, and really wish I still had the XT. The old PCs, XTs and ATs were made of steel, and nothing short of a direct lightening strike would hurt it.

I dropped an AT at work from a 7 foot shelf onto a hard slate floor. The chassis was slightly tweaked, but I reseated all the equipment and it fired up, no problems. Do that today with a current machine and you're likely to get PC fodder everywhere.

I did my time writing in BASICA, then QuickBasic. Here's a link to some of my material that I wrote in high school: http://www.slowcoder.net/basic
Take a look at them if you like.
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Old 20-11-2008, 04:18 PM   #16
Rogerwilco
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You Done Typed . . ..

Heh, I'm not as aged as you, but looks like we've got some common interests! My first computer was the Coleco ADAM, with cassette drives and cartridge slot! I learned BASIC on it. The ADAM disappeared from our house when we got an XT machine. I still miss both machines, and really wish I still had the XT. The old PCs, XTs and ATs were made of steel, and nothing short of a direct lightening strike would hurt it.

I dropped an AT at work from a 7 foot shelf onto a hard slate floor. The chassis was slightly tweaked, but I reseated all the equipment and it fired up, no problems. Do that today with a current machine and you're likely to get PC fodder everywhere.

I did my time writing in BASICA, then QuickBasic. Here's a link to some of my material that I wrote in high school: http://www.slowcoder.net/basic
Take a look at them if you like.


Heh....my first was a Trash 80 (TRS 80) and that's where I learned Basic...

I was 30 at the time, and turned into a little kid I was so fasinated by it.

Back then you bought books of Basic code for programs: there was little or no "pre coded" casettes available

You could use regular casettes, just be carefull and not rewind back to the leader...

After I upgraded to a whopping 16k, I tackled typing the Basic code for this, at the time, state of the art needed 16k to run game: Star trek!

8 x 8 Grid, various klingons in each square, it was really something, boy...

To get a somewhat feel for it, there's still a startrek game that has the same basic premise: EGATrek.

Course it was drawn with ascii, in Black and white, and all keyboard commands.

Checked out your site! Pretty neat. Oh, I'd forgotten about...Line Numbers!

100 GOTO 150
150 GOTO 220
220 GOTO 100

Heh.......

I had a buddy of mine open a computer repair shop back in the XP days:
I'd help him out from time to time, and you're right, those were built like tanks.

I found everything from paper clips to little kids toys in the drive....

I remember when I upgraded to......a 286! Wow........

10 Meg Hard drive, as I recall........

Hey, you remember these Programs?

SLED
LIST
Scan32
Sidekick
The Draw
Fido
ZZT


Speaking of Fido..... How about...BBS's?

Single file programs, that if you changed any attributes like the color scheme, it would clone itself to the new settings.
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Old 20-11-2008, 04:54 PM   #17
SlowCoder
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Yeah, I played EGA Trek back in the day. I still drag it out for some old school fun now and then. I also play Rogue periodically.

My very first game (other than the Atari 2600) was "Buck Rogers" on tape ( http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/23...t+of+Zoom.html ), ADAM version. I'd play it over and over and over. Somehow the tape never self destructed!

Of the programs you listed, I remember Sidekick and TheDraw. I never used SideKick, because I used Norton Commander. I used TheDraw to build some ASCII screens for some of the local BBSs. I used Telix to connect to them. I used a word processor called Galaxy, and was very good at manual text formatting. I even transcribed a couple of game manuals into ASCII with it, complete with ASCII graphics.

When I first got my XT, I wanted so badly to learn DOS. I remember formatting my hard drive a couple of times, requiring a trip to the computer store by my father to have everything reinstalled.

To this day, I have all but one game in my library from the old days. That one, which has alluded me, was an ASCII-based golf game. I'm afraid it has disappeared into obscurity and been lost to history.

Gawd, we're a couple of nerds, eh?
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Old 21-11-2008, 12:11 AM   #18
Rogerwilco
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Heh . . .. And I was a Sales Manager at the time I bought that Trash 80....

Sidekick wasn't like Norton commander,

Sidekick was the first TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) program out there...

Simple stuff, calulator, address book, notepad...you hit some weird key combination to bring it up....but Wow...... Was that something...
Norton commander..... I've lived with that for years and years...the Grandaddy of all dos shells....

I'm using Total Commander now, but they use the exact same commands as NC.... I've still got it in storage, and would use it 'cept that old DOS 8 char file name max..... it'll truncate anything longer.....

What was the name(3) of some of the popular BBS software? For some reason, all I can recall is Fido...which was old when I got into it.... I had a BBS, BTW...

Remember those BBS "On line" games?

How about 300 Baud modems?

My first was a 1200 Baud, and man, that smoked!

Heh

Looking at your handle, do you have any software out there, either Retail, shareware or freeware that you've written?

I wrote a grand total of two Shareware programs, had a bit of response, but that was in the late 80's early 90's.....

a few dozen freeware bits, almost all savegame cheats......

Heh....Just flashed on....remember ZZT?

Rogerwilco and out
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Old 21-11-2008, 07:11 AM   #19
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5th has a nice in between programming language for editing savegames.


It might be beneficial to split this thread on savegame editing and nostalgia talk.
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Old 21-11-2008, 12:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerwilco View Post
Heh . . .. And I was a Sales Manager at the time I bought that Trash 80....

Sidekick wasn't like Norton commander,

Sidekick was the first TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) program out there...

Simple stuff, calulator, address book, notepad...you hit some weird key combination to bring it up....but Wow...... Was that something...
Norton commander..... I've lived with that for years and years...the Grandaddy of all dos shells....

I'm using Total Commander now, but they use the exact same commands as NC.... I've still got it in storage, and would use it 'cept that old DOS 8 char file name max..... it'll truncate anything longer.....

What was the name(3) of some of the popular BBS software? For some reason, all I can recall is Fido...which was old when I got into it.... I had a BBS, BTW...

Remember those BBS "On line" games?

How about 300 Baud modems?

My first was a 1200 Baud, and man, that smoked!

Heh

Looking at your handle, do you have any software out there, either Retail, shareware or freeware that you've written?

I wrote a grand total of two Shareware programs, had a bit of response, but that was in the late 80's early 90's.....

a few dozen freeware bits, almost all savegame cheats......

Heh....Just flashed on....remember ZZT?

Rogerwilco and out
I never actually ran a BBS, but I was very active in the local ones at the time. Made friends with the sysops, a couple of which I still talk to. Contributed games I'd snagged from other BBSs, and drew come ANSI screens.

My first modem was also a 1200bps. Unfortunately my father bought it when 2400bps modems were already out, so I was still the "slowest on the block". I'd sometimes go to my friend's house to use his. My next modem was a USRobotics 14k external, which was a great improvement! But by that time I had found the Internet, and my time on BBSs was decreasing. Looking back, I really wish I could go back to my XT with its 1200bps modem, and have a day of atl3x4dt! (For those that don't get it, that's a modem dial string, typed into a terminal.)

As far as ZZT, I never played it, though "ZZT" is a very familiar sequence of letters from back in the day. From a little googling, it looks like it was some sort of Rogue/WOW type game? Looks pretty neat! Think I might have to give it a real teardown.

Other than my Animator software, I never released anything of my own to the public, until recently. I decided to place my stuff out there because I became nostalgic about QB about a month ago, and wanted to contribute my old stuff to the QB community.

Oh, yes. Now I do remember Sidekick. I think I tried it once, but had problems with performance, or it didn't work, or something or other. That was back in the late 80's-early 90's? I was a teen at that time, so software like that wasn't of real importance yet.

Edit: Holy Bug Eyes Batman! SideKick for DOS is still being sold. The surprise here is that it still costs between $59 and $99??? Holy Mazoli! I'd figure that someone who could afford that price could also afford a newer computer that can run newer software to do the same stuff!

Last edited by SlowCoder; 21-11-2008 at 01:02 PM.
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