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[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Borodin

I suspect you don't mean this to sound either so dismissive or so certain.

Yes, I can be too sure of this "never", and I am sorry for that. Most of time - yes.

I've been playing MoM since it first came out (I reviewed it at the time), and I've certainly had allies break pacts with me. Happens all the time. As soon as you become powerful enough to be perceived as a threat, even the friendliest AI players will turn on you. This bit of AI was developed by Sid Meier, and it turns up again in Alpha Centauri (which was not, contrary to belief, authored by Meier, but used much of his AI code). You can just watch the impression you make on AI-driven players slowly drift down as you become very big--and it's not too long before pacts are broken for stated reasons that make no sense at all.

Oh, well, I begin to play MoM around 1999 and played it two-three years. On Impossible, because other options are too easy. And usually I made pacts with every single wizard. And usually they never broke it, except for Spell of the Mastery. But well, it actually could be not 1.31, but 1.2 (I doubt it though). Well, I'll test it and write results here.

Originally Posted by Nivm

_I have noticed no difference in the tax money paid when the populace was divided into farmers and workers, and completely to farmers.

I seen it. Well, I can test, of course. I'll say then.

_I forgot nothing with the planar towers; when you plan a road on suitable ground, then shift planes*, the road will be built regardless, even over water.

Ah. Then you are right, I think. In you initial statement you speaked about Towers exactly, so I intervene. Sorry.

_On the subject of army strength effecting treasure, I haven't noticed any difference when varying the amount of four heroes, a shaman, and two longbowmen troops.

Then I could be wrong here. I know that I receiving bigger rewards later in game, and I know that it was smaller (but stronger) armies later on, so I can made wrong conclusion about that.

But I am fairly sure about "divided treasures" issue, because every time when I kills enormous armies in 2-3 approaches, I receives fairly pathetic reward. Well, I can test it too.

P.S. Sorry for seemingly over-confident issue. My active English still far from perfect.

[Oso]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Then I could be wrong here. I know that I receiving bigger rewards later in game, and I know that it was smaller (but stronger) armies later on, so I can made wrong conclusion about that.

This is understandable, at least in my opinion The tougher the node/lair/tower, the more developed the stack that destroys it needs to be. That means the tougher sites stay unconquered longer. It is completely understandable that a conclusion that they grow in strength and rewards as the game progresses can be arrived at when in reality they are built that strong at game start.

As far as I can tell, only neutral city garrisons grow in strength and number as the game progresses and if you unsuccessfully attack a site that is populated by death creatures that have life stealing attacks. There you have the potential to have at least some of your army raised as undead defenders after the battle providing stacking limits are not exceeded and also that the raised units do not do not make the population of the site contain more than 2 distinct units. Say you go in with High Men pikemen against ghouls and a Demon Lord. You kill all the ghouls, all your men get killed and when you return you find the site is defended by a Demon Lord and your now undead pikemen.

[Japo]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Oh, well, I begin to play MoM around 1999 and played it two-three years. On Impossible, because other options are too easy. And usually I made pacts with every single wizard. And usually they never broke it, except for Spell of the Mastery. But well, it actually could be not 1.31, but 1.2 (I doubt it though). Well, I'll test it and write results here.

Are you sure you're all talking about the same thing, not ones thinking about peace status and others about wizard pacts?

I know the AI can declare war on you at any time, but not sure once you've secured a "wizard pact". I managed few times--not that I tried really.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Japo

Are you sure you're all talking about the same thing, not ones thinking about peace status and others about wizard pacts?

I know the AI can declare war on you at any time, but not sure once you've secured a "wizard pact". I managed few times--not that I tried really.

I always take Charismatic and Famous traits, if it matters. If I am in peace, yes, computer can attack you at any time (and it seems that in that state it not matter, whether you close to it's cities or not). When you agree to Wizard Pact (or how this thing is named? I always forget it Scroll symbol) - I am not sure about broke. But if you are forged Alliance - it lasts forever, if only you not enter "Danger Zone". At least it is as I remember it. I trying it for now, so we'll see.

nivm, I tested "builder/farmer" issue. For each "builder to farmer" conversion you got extra coin. It not shown on city screen, but if you'll check global statistic (it shown at right at the end of any turn), it is obvious change.

Hello guys, joining the game experience discussion shortly.

First of all I don't care much whether the AI declares war or not since there doesn't seem to be much difference in it's behaviour, be it at peace or be it at war. Only real difference is that you cannot trade spells any more once war is declared. Many wars are phony anyways - the AI DOW you without being able to attack (lacking ships for example).

I mostly agree with what Pex said about the strategic weaknesses of the AI. In a game that I'm just playing Kali shared a continent with me and she could have just steamrolled over me with the army she had. I wouldn't have stood a chance. But she just didn't do it - even though she was quite aggressive right at the start. But when she had that killer army she did nothing - until it was too late for her.

That being said I still find the game does offer a lot of interesting situations. If you get delayed in your development the enemy wizards eventually do start to send stacks of doom (SODs). It just takes an awful long time until they do. So when you pick a race that is not easy to start with and pick some retorts and spell picks that turn out to be not much helpful at your random starting position, then things can get quite tough. I had a game where I picked Barbarians as my race and nodemaster as my only retort (which also means you go Jack of all trades, for you need at least one spell pick in four different areas to be able to choose nodemaster). Then the random map generator (RMG) rolled a map where the only two power nodes in my range were very tough ones - making my nodemastery quite useless for almost half of the game. And Freya started very close to me on that map - then she expanded very fast, making it hard for me to survive at the start. So that game was tough - although it was only normal difficulty. It would have been much easier with Halflings instead of Barbarians. Barbarians take longer to get strong - especially when your starting position is unfortunate. Btw. the only neutral city in range happened to be Halflings - and it had at least 6 units of slingers as garrison and I did not have Guardian Wind spell. I was really scratching my head on how to take that city.

In my present game marauders almost killed me twice. The first time they came for my main city (where my wizard fortress is) with a unit of Zombies just a few turns into the fresh game. I barely survived. Then quite some time later I thought I had protected that city well enough (playing Halflings in this game, Barbarians was the previous game). But then the Marauders came with a killer stack made up of one Demon (immune to missiles), five units of Skeletons and one unit of Zombies. My Slingers couldn't use their ranged attack neither against the Demon nor against the Skeletons - only against the Zombies. Fortunately I also had two Swordsmen units there. And I summoned a Fire Elemental in combat. Then I found out the hard way that Star Fires spell does not do much (or even any) damage to Demons (while it does hurt Ghouls badly...). So I had to cast Psionic Blast with the little remaining Mana. I survived that onslaught on a wing and a prayer. It was a very close shave. But it sure was an interesting battle. And this was on Arcanum plane - not even on Myrror - and playing at normal difficulty.

I'm still not very proficient in knowing what type of spells affect what types of monsters. Usually Star Fires should affect evil creatures but here it did nothing to that Demon. Also I often find that Fire Bolts sometimes work nicely and sometimes don't work at all. Psionic Blast seems to be the safest bet (hitting in most cases) but is quite expensive too (requires 2 additional Mana points for one additional point of damage).

[Pex]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

nivm, I tested "builder/farmer" issue. For each "builder to farmer" conversion you got extra coin. It not shown on city screen, but if you'll check global statistic (it shown at right at the end of any turn), it is obvious change.

I believe I know what you are talking about here. All surplus food (food you produce but don't use for your units) it's sold at the end of the turn at (I think) one gold per two units of food. That's explained by saying that you cannot stack food (which is a pity btw). So if you convert builders to farmers and therefore make extra food, you will get more gold, but only if your overall food production is positive - if it's zero you get nothing.

Personally, I always keep my overall food production at 0 or 1 and rarely 2, because even if I don't need production in one city, I still need it in some other. In the game stage where I have cities trading goods, it's better to have your people building and earning coin that way, than getting it from extra food. I'm not sure if trading goods benefits from market/bank/merchant guild, but I know that money from surplus food doesn't.

Originally Posted by Philos73

I'm still not very proficient in knowing what type of spells affect what types of monsters. Usually Star Fires should affect evil creatures but here it did nothing to that Demon. Also I often find that Fire Bolts sometimes work nicely and sometimes don't work at all. Psionic Blast seems to be the safest bet (hitting in most cases) but is quite expensive too (requires 2 additional Mana points for one additional point of damage).

You can download a spell book from this site and there you'll see which spell affect which creature and in what way. Some creatures have magic immunity (not sure if demons do, but you can always check by right-clicking on the creature(s) during the game). Some creatures have some other immunities, though I noticed that creatures with fire immunity can still be harmed by fire bolts.

I don't know the game mechanics of spell casting, but I'm assuming it doesn't depend only on your power and the resistance of the creature, but also on some chance (computer dice roll), because it's obvious that some spells sometimes cause a great damage and sometimes small or no damage at all during the same battle.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Pex

I believe I know what you are talking about here. All surplus food (food you produce but don't use for your units) it's sold at the end of the turn at (I think) one gold per two units of food. That's explained by saying that you cannot stack food (which is a pity btw). So if you convert builders to farmers and therefore make extra food, you will get more gold, but only if your overall food production is positive - if it's zero you get nothing.

Oh, well, as my main city is halfling ones, I can do a simple test.

P.1. All halflings converted to workers. I have overall net income of 0 coins and food income of -11 food.

P.2. All halflings converted to farmers. I have net income of 5 foods and 7 gold.

So for net change of 16 food production I receiving 7 coins.

Well, it really looks like "2 foods equal to 1 coin", yes. But it seems that it is not net surplus of your empire. It is any surplus above "needed" level, regardless of your actual needs. That's equal to "one farmer equal to one coin" as usual farmers produce exactly two foods.

It is even, I presume?

I don't know the game mechanics of spell casting, but I'm assuming it doesn't depend only on your power and the resistance of the creature, but also on some chance (computer dice roll), because it's obvious that some spells sometimes cause a great damage and sometimes small or no damage at all during the same battle.

1. Manual clearly states that:

- Every sword have probability of 30% to do one damage. Every +1 increase this chance by 10% (so only +7 weapon will hit always in full strength).

- Ranged attack have the same restrictions for strength, but another probabilities. It is 30% for any magic attack, and 30-20-10% for 2-4-5+ squares for non-magic.

- Defence applied to all attacks, including ranged and magical. The same 30% for blocking one successful hit per shield.

- Resistance is added parameter to escape spell altogether. 10% per cross. So ten crosses means invulnerability to spells and special attacks.

2. BTW, in any battle there is mana multiplier like "1.5x", shown under mana reserves. It shows mana spending per spell. So for named 1.5 any spell of 10SP will drain your skill by 10, but mana reserves by 15. Depend of distance from home castle.

[Japo]

Originally Posted by Philos73

I'm still not very proficient in knowing what type of spells affect what types of monsters. Usually Star Fires should affect evil creatures but here it did nothing to that Demon. Also I often find that Fire Bolts sometimes work nicely and sometimes don't work at all. Psionic Blast seems to be the safest bet (hitting in most cases) but is quite expensive too (requires 2 additional Mana points for one additional point of damage).

Even if a unit is vulnerable to that kind of attack, it doesn't mean the attack will be powerful enough. Maybe its defence or magical resistance will be too high compared with the attack. Spectre said it all if you want to crunch numbers. That's why armor piercing is such a great trait.

[Pex]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Oh, well, as my main city is halfling ones, I can do a simple test.

P.1. All halflings converted to workers. I have overall net income of 0 coins and food income of -11 food.

P.2. All halflings converted to farmers. I have net income of 5 foods and 7 gold.

So for net change of 16 food production I receiving 7 coins.

Well, it really looks like "2 foods equal to 1 coin", yes. But it seems that it is not net surplus of your empire. It is any surplus above "needed" level, regardless of your actual needs. That's equal to "one farmer equal to one coin" as usual farmers produce exactly two foods.

It is even, I presume?

I don't know. This is a quote from the manual.

"Note that surplus gold and mana are added to the amounts
shown in the status window each turn, while surplus food is converted
to gold at a rate of one gold piece per two surplus food units."

On the other hand, a part about taxation in the manual says nothing about farmers paying more tax than workers. In fact, according to the manual some races have workers that produce more gold (tax) than farmers.

"Gold: You determine how much gold each town generates by
setting the tax rate. By default, the tax rate starts at one gold per
figure, but you can set it anywhere from one-half to three gold per
figure, in half coin increments. Dwarf workers produce double the
tax rate, and nomads produce 50% more."

Perhaps halfling farmers pay more tax (since they produce more food as well), but it's not mentioned in manual. I guess we can always do a similar test that you did, but with another race.

Btw, I don't doubt what you said there - I have no reason to. It's just strange that it's not mentioned anywhere in the manual. Maybe it's another bug or maybe it's a feature implemented for the v1.31 (and manual being written for v1.00 or something).

1. Manual clearly states that:

- Every sword have probability of 30% to do one damage. Every +1 increase this chance by 10% (so only +7 weapon will hit always in full strength).

- Ranged attack have the same restrictions for strength, but another probabilities. It is 30% for any magic attack, and 30-20-10% for 2-4-5+ squares for non-magic.

- Defence applied to all attacks, including ranged and magical. The same 30% for blocking one successful hit per shield.

- Resistance is added parameter to escape spell altogether. 10% per cross. So ten crosses means invulnerability to spells and special attacks.

I was too lazy to look for those figures

Btw, I wonder if there's a thing like automatic fail or automathic success. For example, 30% chance could mean that on D10 you need to roll 8 or 9 or 10, but if you have 10 crosses and therefore 100% chance maybe if you still roll 1 it's an authomatic failure. Warhammer uses such rules (although the game works with d6, not d10). Just a thought.

2. BTW, in any battle there is mana multiplier like "1.5x", shown under mana reserves. It shows mana spending per spell. So for named 1.5 any spell of 10SP will drain your skill by 10, but mana reserves by 15. Depend of distance from home castle.

That's tend to get annoying if you are a spell orientated wizard rather than creature orientated one. I used to select 'channeling' skill to overcome that problem but lately I just select alchemy and get extra mana I need from gold.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Pex

I don't know. This is a quote from the manual.

"Note that surplus gold and mana are added to the amounts
shown in the status window each turn, while surplus food is converted
to gold at a rate of one gold piece per two surplus food units."

On the other hand, a part about taxation in the manual says nothing about farmers paying more tax than workers. In fact, according to the manual some races have workers that produce more gold (tax) than farmers.

Well, there is misunderstanding, I think. I said already: this surplus gold is not from tax. It is really converted food. But it seems, it is not total food (that needed for all your armies and cities), but any surplus produced by city. Even if it is not actual "surplus", but consumed one in some other city. That's because of that I named it "even".