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[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Tulac@Dec 27 2004, 01:35 AM
(Damn a long post...)

Just read mine on the previous side :whistle:

But I agree with you - there's no higher force, yet our lives aren't completely free. We have limits!
@Gormash: YOU'RE RIGHT! There are so many things we can't explain. I bet 500 years ago they'd think I car was a wonder made in hell!!!

[Strobe]

once, someone said (i think it was albert einstein) that the universe and our
planet earth are systems being so complex that it is almost obvious, they
have been created by some higher form of intelligence.

i do not call this creator necessarily "god", but i do believe in a kind of superior
entity. i would not call my self religious. nevertheless, nature itself appears to
me like a proof of a dynamic that has given birth to anything roaming reality.

in my opinion, there is something gathering all elements of life together and keeping
them into relation - and biology, chemistry and physics are the material rules under
which they all interact.

[mouse31e]

Originally posted by Strobe@Dec 27 2004, 12:22 AM
once, someone said (i think it was albert einstein) that the universe and our
planet earth are systems being so complex that it is almost obvious, they
have been created by some higher form of intelligence.

I agree with that in a way.

I actually believe in God and one of the main reasons, though there are others, is that I can't comprehend how something as complex as this universe, planet and its lifeforms could happen for any other reason.

Look at the human body. Think about the number of complicated processes that take place inside the body. Then tell me they can all happen by chance when the right combination of millions of atoms happen to join up in the right way at the right time! Pretty unlikely I think! That's why I believe something must have designed the human body and in fact that of all lifeforms.

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by mouse31e@Dec 27 2004, 02:37 AM
Look at the human body. Think about the number of complicated processes that take place inside the body. Then tell me they can all happen by chance when the right combination of millions of atoms happen to join up in the right way at the right time! Pretty unlikely I think! That's why I believe something must have designed the human body and in fact that of all lifeforms.

That's one way of thinking, but I have a real problem with that!

The thin is, that the way you desribed the reasons you believe in god is basically that you believe in some higher purpose of life. That something created us for a reason.
Well sorry to say, but I refuse to believe in such a god. Because:
1. IT should give us a manual on how to live a life (that none of us really chose), 2. It let's bad things happen to people, so it is:
a ) mean
b ) bored and with a sence of black humor
c ) incompetent of keeping order
d ) wishes people to take care of them selves (like a parent who let's the children grow up). But if this is the case, then again, why isn't there any guidence? A parent who abandones a child is a bad parent, so...

I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but those are the reasons I refuse to believe in a GOD who created us to achieve some purpose!

[Gormash]

I don't have a problem with that, as long as you don't force other to share your view... :angel:

I don't see an orderly system of lifeforms as a sign of a controlling being. If you think of how many trillions of stars there is in this galaxy, then you are bound to end up with life of some sort, if nothing more than bacteria.
Then factor in that there are at LEAST as many galaxies as there are stars in the milky way, then the only logic thing to assume is that life has to evolve into intelligence at some point and place. There are simply too many random factors to the universe for it NOT to happen on at LEAST one planet.

By the way, I do believe in intelligent alien life-forms. I just don't believe that they are stupid enough to come to this backwater planet! LOL

[Zachai]

you're absolutely right. just because our bodies work so perfectly for our environment is no indication that there is a god, i believe. Douglas Adams once said that man believing that the world was made for him is like a puddle believing a hole in the ground is made for it. it fits perfectly and will believe that the hole was made for it fight up to the point where it evaporates.

so i personaly don't believe in god. I don't like to say that I believe in anything. I have not been alive long enough to see enough of the world and how it works to make any assumptions. That's just what i think.

[mouse31e]

Originally posted by Sebatianos@Dec 27 2004, 12:50 AM
I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but those are the reasons I refuse to believe in a GOD who created us to achieve some purpose!

I certainly don't mind.

We've been into it much deeper before!
(remember the Meaning of Life thread? Now closed for the safety of us all! :crazy: )

Someone once said (I don't remember who right now), "Does an explosion in a paint factory create a painting?" These days, the answer depends on your opinion of modern art, but the point is, if you have an explosion of matter (like the big bang), how likely is it that you get perfect planets and lifeforms unless something is controlling what happens?

Also, they may not be perfect, but you've got to admit that bodies, plants and planets (generalising a bit!) are pretty clever if they are randomly created!

Personally, the answer to your above question is d. And maybe there is guidance but some people just don't want to hear it....

On the other hand this has been one of my big problems with the God issue. If God supposedly gives us free will then we can do what we like. But if God is outside time he already knows what will happen so do we really have free will at all or are we all pawns in some strange game? Did I write this post because I can do what I like or did God make me write it for some bizarre purpose I don't understand?

[Eagle of Fire]

I don't beleive in God, only in Science.

Since I don't want to open up disputes, I'll simply not participate in the conversation. Let's just say that I respect those with differenc beleives than me and that I expect others to do the same.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Eagle of Fire@Dec 27 2004, 04:14 AM
I don't beleive in God, only in Science.

Since I don't want to open up disputes, I'll simply not participate in the conversation. Let's just say that I respect those with differenc beleives than me and that I expect others to do the same.

I didn't want to make a discussion here, but, if that's so, just a simple question, tell me, please, how universe was created? What was before? Nothing? What nothing then? Void? I don't think that all so simple here, if you speaking about science. I think much should be reconsidered. Why then on the Earth only human appeared, not, let's say, Kasvagorians (from Startopia game k: )?

[cheesegrater]

I believe I am God, therefore I am God.

I am tired of these discussions. Everyone believes in their bullshit and will never change their view. This is because it is difficult to drop views which were propagated to you head throughout your whole life.

It is possible that there is a creator, however he does not impose morality on people, or manifest in any sort of way in humman affairs.

The Bible are fairy tales. It is obsurd.

Also just because science can't explain everything yet doesn't mean we should jump to the conclusion Yahweh made it happen.

In my opinion all of the world religions are wrong. It is only wishful thinking.

In ancient greece all sorts of gods appeared to people. Did these gods all of a sudden stop visiting us?

Religion exists because people were not able to explain natural phenomena. It's thuderstorming because supernatural beings are angry, we must sacrafice goats to please them.

There could be a creator but he does not demand us to worship a cross and say that we are good people. Morality in religion is a manifestation of a need for an orderly society.

Why would God sentance you for eternity of pain for a lifetime which is only a blink of cosmological time? If there is a God and Hitler is not in Heaven, I will be very pissed off. God is unfair. It's like the police shooting people on the spot for parking in the handicap zone.

You can't prove that a god doesn't exist however you can prove that a specific god doesn't exist.

Religion is an ancient barbarian belief passed down to you by your parents because their parents passed it down to them.

Also why does god have to be a good guy? He could be a sadistic child that enjoys seing people's pain. However, this is atributing human characteristics to being that are beyond that. Therefore the creator, assuming that there is such a thing, imposes no morality on people.

It is possible that a creator exists, however it is equally possible that a creator doesn't exist, however...

Never Worship!

Also, I hate when religious people diss the big bang and abiogenesis when they know absolutely nothing about it. I was confiremed as a Catholic and went to a Catholic school from Grade 1 to Grade 12. Read a Physics book, and read the Bible. Then make up your mind. Most religious people don't even read the Bible. If they did they would realize it was bullshit. God spreads dung in people's faces and eats babies.

It surprises me that so many people believe what they were brought up to believe. Your parents aren't omnipotent.

Kill in the name of God. Then kill yourself for our sins. Jesus died for our sins. You should also die. Have some fun with rusty knives. Jesus died a gruesome death. We have to live like Jesus since He was the model human being. It's a death He willfully accepted.

Rejoyce. Your life is muck. Do not despair, you have a great afterlife ahead of you. You will receive 30 virgins once you get to heaven. Be happy, even though we give you a tax of 90%, lie to you, and send you to wars so we can get rich. You will have a great afterlife.

We are all pacifist puppets with no critical perspective, shaped by society to do socially acceptable things, and to believe socially acceptable things. As you drive in the car you think that everybody is a puppet and you're the only one with real problems. However, the guy next to you is thinking the same thing.

I'm sorry, it is interesting.