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[Tulac]

Originally posted by omg+Jun 18 2005, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (omg @ Jun 18 2005, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tulac@Jun 18 2005, 12:18 PM
since Rome, no country had such power over the world.

erm.. the british empire ........
[/b][/quote]
Nope they had Germans(since unification) and France on their back, and the USA was already the strongest industrial country the world...

[Flop]

My opinion of USA is, unfortunately, very low at the moment, for the resons others have stated. I remember that shortly after 9/11 a Danish peace scientist (I guess it's some kind of historian) was asked the question of why so many people disliked USA. His answer was that since the USA had been waging war in close to a hundred different countries, during the last century, it's to be expected that they're not popular everywhere.

The image I have of USA at this moment, is an image of a totalitarian, almost fundamentalist country, where things like democracy and freedom of speech no longer matters. I'm sure this image isn't excactly correct, but that's the impression I get. When I see a "news" channel like fox news, and when I'm told that it is now the largest "news" channel (due to the war in Iraq), I feel like throwing up. How can democracy be expected to work, if most people watch a news channel that consists purely of propaganda and agitation against all political opponents? And on the subject of democracy; I have nothing against Americans, as a matter of fact, most Americans I've met have been very nice people, and one of my best friends is American. But saying that what their government is doing, isn't their fault, is wrong if you believe America is a democracy. In a democracy the government is given a mandate by the people, and Bush has been given two. Obviously I'm not saying all Americans agree with Bush, but it would seem that the majority does.

I also find it annoying that we still have to hear about 9/11 whenever someone criticizes ÚSA. In my book 9/11 is the date when the US supported a military coup in Chile, to topple the democratically elected Allende. Since 9/11 2001, hundreds of thousands of people have lost their lives in the resulting wars, and there is no indication of an end to those wars. I'm ahamed that Denmark joined the war in Iraq, and for me it's just one more reason why our government is incompetent.

Someone also mentioned Hollywood, which I think is another reason why USA is disliked by some people. Hollywood has a tendency to change history and usually just do whatever it pleases to make America seem superior to everyone else. In the cold war, the Soviet Union were always the bad guys in Hollywood movies, now it's always terrorists of some kind. It does give the impression that Hollywood is nothing more than a propaganda machine, echoing whatever the current president is saying (this is mostly true for Hollywood movies who require military aid to be produced, btw). Anyway, when you insist on dividing everything in good and bad, people may just look around and decide that you're actually the one who's bad.

I could go on and on about why and how much I dislike America, but it's not completely fair. I'd just like to say that there are many reasons to like America as well, although for me none of them are political. And remember this is not about hating the American people (although I'm not too crazy about anyone who voted for Bush).

[Stroggy]

Ironic that it is exactly modern-day Hollywood that has been supporting the democrats all this time, while America thanks a great deal of its bad image to them.

[Sebatianos]

Now that you mentioned the film industry again - I can but to mention one of the first epic movies "Birth of a Nation". This was a silent movie made in 1913 and is a bit over 3 hours long. The movie hystory remember it as the first movie that told about issues and wasn't meant for pure entertainment. Guess what - the movie is political propaganda (the worst kind). Because what the movie hystory books and people who know about it usually don't say (and the movie is rarely to bee seen - and even if most people would find it quite unwatchable) The movie is presenting the KKK as the heroes who will bring heavenly glory back to the US, because the South was never against Lincoln (the war was started by the North because they were slave-lovers).
And the movie ends by the Klan restoring rightful godly order by preventing (with weapons) the black population to vote (because in a democratic country such ignorant and foul masses shouldn't be allowed to vote).
And such hypocracy goes on and on...
But it's most visable in the attitude towards the world: If someone threatens to do something to US they will send their armed forces - but if the US is getting involved all over the world that's their god given right to protect democracy. I guess the only thing I really hate about US is its military. It consumes huge budget founds in order to be everywhere and it's everywhere so it would get more founds. So if there's no danger the whole military machine woould be out of work and that would economically brake most rich lobies in the US - so the military has way too much influence - and way too much power.

[Stroggy]

That reminds me of a historyclass I once had. It was about the US involvement in the Great War (that would be the first world war) when the teacher said the US at first didn't want to join the war. People were actually using this as a reason to hate the US. So i'm confused, my fellow classmates hates the US because they didn't join the war, and now they ahte the US because they interfere in wars... I'm confused.

[Tulac]

A sad fact is that so many young, poor American fight, and die for their country while they are still minor age...

@Stroggy: I bet only one or two people said that they hate it because of that, you can't say it's a global opinion...
Americans had good reasons not to invlve themselves in WW1, later they did, but today they are all over the world, they are the judges, they decide what's right and what's worng...

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Jun 18 2005, 04:58 PM
That reminds me of a historyclass I once had. It was about the US involvement in the Great War (that would be the first world war) when the teacher said the US at first didn't want to join the war.

Well Europe isn't completely without sin either... In WW1 they were pleading US to join the war and help them. The attitude I described in my previous post was refering to the situation after the second world war (the time US became the world's dominating super power).
Something that really never was the case sinse the collapse of the Roman Empire (and about the British empire... - can't compare the two. Britain had a vast empire around the globe, but wasn't that strong in Europe itself - and at that time Europe was basically the centre of the world - that's why Germany with almost no colonies was able to succesfully wage a war against France and Britain - both colonial powers).

EDIT: And one more thing...
It was really laughable when US ignorants (I've no idea how many there are, but every country has them) were cursing France for not helping them fight Iraq and saw that as treason. "Well my husband was fighting for the freedom of France in the days of Nazis and now France is betraying us boo-hoo-hoo."
Well they seem to forget that US probably wouldn't win the independency war back in the 18th century were it not for France... :whistle:

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by Tulac@Jun 18 2005, 04:00 PM

@Stroggy: I bet only one or two people said that they hate it

No, they started shouting 'boo'.
i'm in a pretty anti-american class.

[Flop]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Jun 18 2005, 04:58 PM
That reminds me of a historyclass I once had. It was about the US involvement in the Great War (that would be the first world war) when the teacher said the US at first didn't want to join the war. People were actually using this as a reason to hate the US. So i'm confused, my fellow classmates hates the US because they didn't join the war, and now they ahte the US because they interfere in wars... I'm confused.

I doubt your classmates hate the US both because they didn't enter WW1 earlier and because they interfered in other wars (which wars are you thinking about here?). Actually, I find it hard to believe that anyone today can find it in themselves to get worked up about USA not entering WW1 untill they did, but it's perfectly understandable that people in the warring nations back then didn't like it (since US involvement would mean a shorter war, and by extension fewer dead).

That said, the justification for WW1 was almost as bad as the justification for the war in Iraq, so maybe USA was right to stay out (for as long they did, anyway). But in the end, nations rarely enter wars for purely moral reasons. National interests always play the larger role, so trying to make moral justifications for war often make people seem like hypocrites.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by Flop@Jun 18 2005, 04:19 PM

I doubt your classmates hate the US both because they didn't enter WW1 earlier and because they interfered in other wars.

And yet they did, amazingly contradictory, isn't it?

(which wars are you thinking about here?)

I've pressed my best friend on this once, when we had a political disagreement (which is common, him being a staunch anti-american) He didn't really give me an answer, he just repeated "you know, all those wars the US interferes in around the world" my guess is that they're either just repeating what they heard on TV or from their parents or perhaps they are annoyed with the US involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.