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Old 02-08-2011, 12:10 AM   #71
Fruit Pie Jones
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I only responded to your classical rebutals. And in this specific one, telling someone that they are not part of the majority and should either pick it up or leave it be pretty much mean shut up and get out if you don't like it.
OK, I have no idea what you're talking about here. Are you saying I told you to shut up and go away? If so, I'd like you to provide evidence of this accusation. If you're saying someone else did, well, that's between you and that person.

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The thing is, Colonization IV is really only a cheap mod to Civilization IV. I can't believe that they actually did it, it was obviously done to shut up Colonization fanatics while making a clear money grab. Think about it... They had already made one game (Civ IV) which was what they call a success... Then they take exactly the same engine, with little to no modifications to the game itself, and ship Colonization IV with it. The worse part is that most people don't even seem to realize it...
Really? You don't think "most people" could figure out that a game whose title - as shown right on the front of the box - is Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Colonization just might have something to do with Sid Meier's Civilization IV? Either you're not giving anyone else credit for being able to make a simple logical deduction, or you've surrounded yourself with idiots. It's not as if Firaxis deceptively marketed the game as a completely new experience unlike anything you've ever seen before. They were pretty up-front about it being a remake of Colonization using the Civ IV engine. Personally, I didn't buy the game, as I thought the original Colonization wasn't nearly as engaging as the original Civ. As for it being made to "shut up Colonization fanatics"...oh, the horror! Heaven forbid a game company cater to a significant portion of its customer base! What is this world coming to, when corporations actually listen their customers and give them something they want? How dare they!

I also take issue with your assertion that "little to no modifications" were made to the original game, given that you've never actually played the original game.

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Heck, I could have do exactly the same with Civ III scenario editor!
Exactly the same? No. And I wouldn't expect you to try. As you said, you're a gamer, not a developer.

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I guess you don't get what "graphics does not make a game", so I'll spell it out again: it means that you cannot make a great game by focusing solely on graphics.
Given that I said almost exactly that same thing in my previous post and you quoted it, I have to wonder what is it that you think I don't get. Seriously, this is one of the areas in which we agree, as I already said. Why continue arguing as if we don't?

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If you take many "new" games and study them, you will realize that the only thing which is marginally better than the other same genre title on the same shelf in your local store is graphics.
I don't buy those kinds of games. Actually, I don't buy a whole lot of games at all, and maybe that's part of why our perspectives are very different. I have no desire to be the first person I know to own or play a particular game, so when I run across something that looks interesting, I research it first, to make sure that (1) it really is the sort of game that I think it is, and (2) it's not bug-infested to the point of being unplayable. This research consists of simple things like reading a couple of reviews, looking through forums relating to the game, and maybe watching a few videos on YouTube. It doesn't take much time or effort and ensures I don't end up with a pile of POS games.

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A real game do the opposite: you take a great idea, build on it, then expand the graphics around it so it doesn't impede on the original idea. But even then it is very easy by upgrading the graphics to completely change the original gameplay idea...
I have to disagree there too. A pure graphics upgrade shouldn't affect gameplay at all, unless gameplay itself is heavily graphics-dependent.

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It is unfortunately another flawed argument: that argument everybody knows, "if you don't like what a company does don't purchase its products and it will either be forced to change or go under" work well for local business but simply don't hold the road when you have a big enough pool of consumers ready to purchase the product anyways.
Of course I'm not trying to imply that a single consumer has enough power to influence a large company; that would be silly, although a single well-connected consumer has significantly more power now than ever before due to the unprecedented speed with which information can be transmitted to a vast audience. If word gets out that you're producing crappy products, you're going to have a problem on your hands sooner or later.

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So, as long as a company sell the minimum amount they need to keep head above water, they're good.
Not necessarily. A company barely keeping its head above water is in a bad position relative to competitors who are turning a proportionally better profit. Those competitors will be able to lure their best employees away, resulting in a drop in productivity. If there's nothing to compensate for that, it puts the competitors in an even better position, and you've got a positive-feedback loop that will doom that company if nothing interrupts it.

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Even if you actually manage to bring enough people in a while state to boycott a specific product. And as the rest of the items sell with time, they eventually get even more money.
But that's meaningless if the company has gone under in the meantime.

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There really is a whole world of new and different marketing and business models nowaday. But there is one very specific model which always won over the decades if you care to do a little research on gaming in general: cheap and numerous items always win on higher quality products. There is plenty of examples: Atari winning over ColecoVision, Nintendo winning over Sega, Personnal Computers winning over both Commodore and Amiga... All those products which won over their competitors over the ages were the cheapest and lowest quality product, which won in the end over numbers rather than over quality.
This is extremely oversimplified. Atari vs. ColecoVision, for example: The Atari 2600 was released in 1977, and the ColecoVision? 1982. Atari simply got there first, and when Coleco hit its stride, it ran headlong into the Big Crash of '83. I haven't researched the other examples very much, but there are certainly more variables involved than simply cheaper-beats-better. Marketing, for example, is a wild card, which is why the people in the Marketing department get paid a lot of money and have no souls.

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This is exactly what is happening right now in the PC industry too. Games which get out are only shadows of themselves right now, but will continue to rule the industry as long as they are cheap enough to sell enough in good number. At the cost of quality. Which, for a game, mean gameplay and fun. Unless you really love very basic and almost mindnumbing gameplay and fun which last for about 8 hours top.
That kind of thing is only sustainable for so long; witness the aforementioned Crash of '83. A whole lot of crappy games (plus some other factors, of course) nearly destroyed the console-gaming industry. "Fun," though, is completely subjective. For every single thing that you consider fun, there's someone else that considers it the exact opposite. There's obviously no way for a company to produce a game that every gamer in the world will enjoy, so they produce what the majority wants. If, as you say, you're not part of this majority, things may look bleak. That doesn't mean the game companies are doing anything wrong, though. Like all corporations, they don't exist to make you happy; they exist to make money, and they only do so according to the whims of consumers. So if you want to blame someone for the state of the industry, blame your fellow gamers. But don't expect them to care; they're getting what they want.

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That is something I simply cannot accept, especially since the gaming industry already had it right on that aspect of gaming years ago.
See, that's nostalgia talking. You're basically saying that there were only good games years ago and completely forgetting that there were bad ones too. The "gaming industry" has never churned out just one type of game. And again, the industry only changed because the consumer did.

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And as a true gamer, I think this whole shenanigan is worth being opposed to when ever it is possible.
How do you define "true gamer"?

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How are you supposed to know if you like a game enough or not to actually pay full price for it without trying it first? The only option would be not to buy new games at all...
See above: Talk to people. Read reviews. Read forums. Watch videos of the gameplay. Wait for the inevitable bugs to be worked out. Wait for the first major patch and then for a couple of minor patches afterward which fix the issues introduced by the first patch. In short, don't be in a rush to buy a new game just because it's a new game. If you're lucky, by the time you've convinced yourself to buy it, you won't be paying full price anyway.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:17 PM   #72
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How do you define "true gamer"?
Arbitrarily.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:31 PM   #73
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Actually, it is very easy to define the term gamer. A gamer is simply someone who like to play games often.

But to answer FPJ, since I didn't find time to write back about his post which (again) contain so many things wrong on many levels, I was referring to hardcore gamer while speaking of myself. Which I already defined like two posts before or something...
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:34 PM   #74
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Too long without one of these epic threads!





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Old 02-08-2011, 08:02 PM   #75
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Actually, it is very easy to define the term gamer. A gamer is simply someone who like to play games often.

But to answer FPJ, since I didn't find time to write back about his post which (again) contain so many things wrong on many levels, I was referring to hardcore gamer while speaking of myself. Which I already defined like two posts before or something...
Yeah, I figured "true gamer" was one of those elitist terms like "true music fan" or "true Twilight fan" that someone might use to set himself apart from his peers in his own mind. Glad to see that wasn't one of the many things I was wrong about.

When you find time in your true-gamer schedule to let me know just how many things I was wrong about on so many levels, I'll be around.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:25 PM   #76
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Well actually, it has more to do with not wanting to be associated with the "real" definition of gamers nowaday. Which is, of course, an incredibly dumb but very fast teen who play FPS games like a champion but would not be able to do anything else with his life than to become a serial killer... Because everybody knows that video games lead people to violence. Isn't?
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:17 AM   #77
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"Real" gamers don't need weird looking funny hats to have fun.

... but a Santa thingy (Serious Sam anyone?) can do.

Arf arf.

And to say that after all this time I'm still hooked on Unreal COOP .....
Seriously, was it that much to ask to get something better by now?
Gameplay, where is it gone?

Also: F*ck all Crysis games. Mindless and extremely booooooooooooooooooooooooooooring.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:15 PM   #78
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Let's just try to respect each other and to avoid provocations please, thank you.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:40 PM   #79
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And to say that after all this time I'm still hooked on Unreal COOP .....
Seriously, was it that much to ask to get something better by now?
Gameplay, where is it gone?

Also: F*ck all Crysis games. Mindless and extremely booooooooooooooooooooooooooooring.
Funny you should mention Unreal.



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Old 03-08-2011, 03:23 PM   #80
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I am real gamer.

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