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[r0qu3]

I see many comments around here, talking about better FPS in the time doom 2 appeared.

I read Dark Forces, System shock, Hexen and so on... Hexen is an follow up by ID itself.

As i remember these days by myself, the mentioned games weren't made yet

there was wolf3d, doom, doom2, some mods of doom and wolf 3d. In the Shareware sector games in the same time were Corridor 7 or Blake Stone both lacking the graphic and level design complexity of doom2.

I was a kid when doom2 hit the stores here, and i EVERYBODY wanted to have it, for its gameplay and graphics. And the main reason was the violence i have to admit. It really set the idea of for example slicing enemies into bits with the chainsaw.

Also no game in this time had this awesome room-feeling.

This game was a real groundbreaking one for the FPS genre....

And dudes, why you wanna mouse support? the games not meant for this...



p.s.: I just remember the release dates of the games here in Germany, they maybe different in US or so...

[velik_m]

system shock was released before doom2. unlike doom2, it featured real 3d engine:

system shock screenshots

and on top of that a real story.

Hexen was written by Raven not Id. (as was Heretic)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(velik_m @ Sep 24 2006, 08:05 AM) [snapback]257047[/snapback]</div>

system shock was released before doom2. unlike doom2, it featured real 3d engine[/b]

I'm afraid you're wrong my friend. System Shock came out the same year as Doom II - 1994, maybe some months after Doom II. The thing is - Doom 2 is based on Doom, and Doom came out earlier than System Shock - 1993. Besides, System Shock is not really an FPS like Doom but has a 3D RPG engine like Ultima Underworld 1 and 2. You can't correctly compare System Shock and Doom.

[velik_m]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vongoethe @ Sep 24 2006, 11:21 AM) [snapback]257076[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(velik_m @ Sep 24 2006, 08:05 AM) [snapback]257047[/snapback]

system shock was released before doom2. unlike doom2, it featured real 3d engine[/b]

I'm afraid you're wrong my friend. System Shock came out the same year as Doom II - 1994, maybe some months after Doom II. The thing is - Doom 2 is based on Doom, and Doom came out earlier than System Shock - 1993. Besides, System Shock is not really an FPS like Doom but has a 3D RPG engine like Ultima Underworld 1 and 2. You can't correctly compare System Shock and Doom.
[/b][/quote]

doom2: Release date: October 10, 1994
system shock: Release date: March 26, 1994

please explain some more, how wrong i am, my friend.

a 3d first person engine is a 3d first person engine, i've never heard of "3d RPG engine" before.

As I said before, you're wrong because Doom 1 came out in 1993, one year before System Shock. Though they used different 3D engines and the engine of System Shock was more advanced one with much higher processor power requirements, the engine of Doom was more popular due to the nature of it's distribution - with big hype before it came out, and the distribution over the net. Doom was there first, so it is seen as the ancestor of FPS games, and not System Shock or any other weaker FPS of that time.

As for the difference of the engines, System Shock's engine contains many RPG elements that include inventory managment, more complex weapon handling, leaning to the sides and crouching. While it's engine is clearly superior to the engine of Doom, System Shock is clearly not an FPS as in Fast Simple Shooter at Anything that Moves and it's engine can't be compared to Doom or later FPS games.
And other true FPS games like Heretic, Hexen, Dark Forces, Duke Nukem 3D and all other came out later based on the groundbreaking example of Doom, so no matter how you try to bend the facts, you can't pass around the simple fact that Doom was the first true FPS shooter that set the standards for coming times.

[velik_m]

i never said system shock came before doom 1, so how was i wrong? please reread the argument and stop argueing with your own fabrications.

doom 1: release date: December 10, 1993 (wow a whole 3 months earlier <_<)

doom was marketed better and sold more copies, but that doesn't make it a better game. I also fail to see how its simplified gameplay makes it a better FPS, or how added capabilities of system shock's engine actually work against the game.

and wolfenstein 3d may have something to say about your final statement.

System shock sucks. Doom is the Game everyone played. It is more than great. It is one of the best shooters of all time. Gore on! Cool graphics, nice Sound, brutal, wtf is system shock?

System Shock is a fine Adventure game with some slight RPG elements, set in the mankind's future and plays in full 3D graphics. It's a game that hardcore players adore. Very recommended to play for non-FPS gamers who search for a good story.

As for Wolfenstein 3D, it wasn't so far yet to deserve to be called a true 3D game yet despite it's name, there was only one dimension of height. Doom at least created the optical illusion of a true 3D game, but it's engine failed with the true 3D also.

[Elon Yariv]

Hello,
I have a problem with finishing the boss levels in doom II and the final episode: The Plutonia Experiment.(Maybe TNT too, haven't reached the boss level yet)
How do I close that gateway to hell? If it's diffrent in the plutonia episode, please tell me how to close it in both games.
Untill now I just finished playing the game when I reached the gateway, I always enjoyed masscaring deamons but I always got bored of searching for a way to close that gateway.

Thanks in advance.

You need to pump few rockets into the opening in that demon's head where the metallic cube comes out from. In Plutonia Experiment it's tricky, you need to rise the quadratic platform before the head (the switch is somewhere on a side of the "tribune" close to the wall) and shot just before the platform reaches it's highest point. Save before you do then find out the right moment.
Not sure anymore how do to that in TNT, I lost it long time ago from a damaged floppy disk and have only Plutonia Experiment now. But it should be the same there - to send rockets into the demon's opening. I remember though there were some Cyberdemons to hinder you to do that, so you had to be really quick.