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[guesst]

Okay, much love for "the lemming" now. Sure it's a crap demo, in lots of ways, but that crap demo puts it ahead of 20 other wannabe fan made games that never even get that far. Now I have hope for the project.

So the idea is this: a platform-puzzle game where you use icons you've collected to get through the level. Hmmm. Hmmm. Not bad. I assume an average level would run like:

1. Use build icon to reach umbrella icon and a build icon.
2. Use umbrella icon to reach another build icon and a climb icon.
3. Use climb icon to reach dig icon and one more build icon.
4. Use dig icon to reach last build icon.
5. Use all build icons to reach exit.

While the premise is solid it seems to me not enough.

Usually I don't like the violent-ing of games but give this a try. The single lemming is all alone and a ugly lemming eating monster is after him. The object of each level is to find a way to thwart the monster. Either you need to dig away the pillars supporting the monster so it falls or load up a catapult and fire it, or build the catapult, or something. Beat the monster, move on, oh darn it there's another monster, or the monster recovered and followed you. Puzzles would me made harder then by having the monster's rantings rain boulders on you in the cave or have it's giant fist occasionally smash through the ceiling. Take too long to beat the level and the lemming eating monster gets you.

Nothing so blatent as picking up a rocket launcher and blasting it. Keep it light, keep it fun. More like a fusion of Donkey Kong and the lemming. Maybe there could be a level where the object is to reflect a cannonball to where the monster will appear, or rig up a chandeleer to fall when the monster gets to a certian point.

I'm just brainstorming ideas here. But keep us posted as the game develops.

[Onyx]

Well, finally some brainstorming!

Ok, first my look on some points made by guesst:

Yes, the game WOULD be boring if there were no enemies. But I was thinkin about focusing on avoiding/trapping enemies rather then figthing them. Also, I don't like the idea of a single "uber" monster "to rule them all" (pun intended :P ). As I said, the REAL work starts next week.

Now, Moonstrider:

Basicaly I would need the buttons in a bit higher resolution AND each of these buttons in animated form (e.g. single frame showing lemming digging for the button and animated one for the game). Try making a simple walking animation first (something in the means of 32x64 or so) so we'll discuss this further. And, thank you for being so ready to do it. k:

Also, one thing Moonstrider mentioned gave me an idea.

It could be cool to have more lemmings too, and have it more in the style of Lost Vikings. In that case you could group the different actions to different lemmings. One lemming could have actions like dig and hack while another could have climb and maybe carry other lemmings as a new feature.[/b]

So, what if you could lead one lemming FAMILY. Consider them as Erik, Baleog and Olaf from "Lost Vikings". Every one can do something that no other can. But, here's the twist: let's say that you have a lemming called Lemmy. At first level Lemmy can dig. But, after you finish few levels he learns how to make tunnels (dig horizontaly). This eliminates "icons" but still refreshes the game every few levels.

Thoughts?

[#BlakhOle#]

Thinking... :angry: (intense thinking, not angry :bleh: ) Well they'd have to have pretty contrasting abilities, but if theres just three that shouldnt be too hard. If one dug, one would have more go-uppy sort of abilities, building stairs or climbing, and the other could be miscellaneous abilities, self-destruct or whatever, cept i dunno how you're going to get self-destruct to work if you need them all to survive... Just trying to think of all the lemmings abilities here...

1. dig (vertical dig)
2. pound (horizontal dig)
3. pick (diagonal dig)
4. umbrella
5. climb
6. stopper
7. builder
8. selfdestruct

Well you could just about rule out stopper and selfdestruct, and if the digger is going to be learning the new abilities later on youve got umbrella climb and builder to work with. I think if you'll have three each lemming should each have at least three abilities by the end, so you'll have to do some brain storming on new abilities, speed maybe. Anyways just trying to help, tell me if you think of anything.

[Onyx]

Allright, after much brainstorming this is wht I came up.

First of all, I think I'll ditch "single lemming" concept. So, think more "Lost Vikings".

Story:

Nothing complex here: three young lemmings which have not yet learned all things adult lemmings know were playing in the woods and when they came back all other lemmings were gone. Now they have to go on their journey alone...

Game mechanics:

You command three lemmings. You can switch beetween them just like in "Lost Vikings". In the game they will have names, but for now we'll call them "scout, "Builder" and "Enigineer". These names are not the best but they'l do for now.

Lemmings:

SCOUT

Abilityes:

1) Jumping - not much to explain here
2) Sprinting - imagine those rocks that can crush you in "Super Mario". In some sections the only way to survive those is to sprint.
3) Climbing - what else can I say?
4) Rolling - for those narrow spaces he has to cross and you can't dig a tunnel (either it's metal or digger is not around)
5) Shimmying - he can grab bars above his head and move over gaps using that.

Description:

He's your guy that can go allmost anywhere. You'll use him to get to all that hard-to-reach switches
(you didn't think you can make a game like this without switches did you?)

BUILDER

Abilityes:

1) Digging - vertical digging
2) Pounding - horizontal digging
3) Picking - diagonal digging
4) Buliding stairs - well, duh!
5) Building bridges - same as stairs but it goes horizontally (I can't remember if this exsisted in "Lemmings)

Description:

Well, "Scout" can get allmost anywhere but other two can't. He'll be your guy that makes paths for everyone else.

ENGINEER

Abilityes:

1) Umbrella - to fall from great heights without being killed
2) Bomb setting - "Builder" can dig throught soil, but this guy can blow up rocks and things like that.
3) Swinging - he can use grappling hook

Description:

Before you start screaming that he has only 3 abilityes while others have 5 read on! First of all he's the only one that can control complex machanisms (everyone can activate simple switch beu he is the only one that can control e.g. a crane that can move objects or caryy lemmings across gaps). Also, you can't make a bridge across every gap (your bridge has maximum length it can reach, if you don't reach other side with the bridge it will collaps). Also, in "Lemmings 2" there are kanu and magic carpet. Everyone can enter them, but "Engineer" is the only one that can "drive" them.

So, comments?

EDIT: Oh, yeah, each lemming will have 1 or 2 of his abilityes when you start the game. They will gain their other abilityes as you reach certain levels (levels of the game, not levels of the character like in an RPG)

[velik_m]

nice...

hope you make it.

also be sure to make a handy editor, so people can add their own "puzzles".

[Onyx]

@velik_m: yes, I plan to do that, don't worry

[guesst]

Looking at your layout for who gets what abilities, I say that's looking good. So are you still going to have the icon collection/dispursion?

Now this is so much like "The Lost Vikings" that I would recomend dumping the lemmings. I'm not saying to go Viking either. Think of something original. Something totally new. Like robots or cyborgs (megaman-like, again keep it light) and their abilities are chips that allow them to do certian functions. Plus that will allow you to branch out to non-lemming abilities.

So does each "lemming" have a set number of icons they can use in a level, they just start with a stock of this one has __ of this, __ of that, and that one has __ of the other thing? Or is their abilities unlimited. Can they trade icons?

[Onyx]

@guesst:

If do it this way icon collection is out. Every Lemming has his own abilities he CAN'T trade- that's what he can do and that's it. I was thinking that they should start the level with predetermined number of each ability: this way you can't allways complete levels the way it's easyest, you need to save your abilities as much as you can.

And I would still like them to be lemmings: they're cute, everyone is familiar with them and I think people will enjoy playing this game with known characters, known levels (at least by their looks) but still in a different game. This is a risc too, offcourse, but I'm willing to take it.

And yes, it looks alot like Lost Vikings, but I thinked about whole lemmings thing and you know, lemmings would now be lemmings if they didn't cooperate, so this is a bit more natural way of playing it.

[Data]

It sounds a bit like
http://www.abandonia.com/games/en/279/FuryofFurries.htm
Maybe you can use it for some inspiration.

[Moonstrider]

Wow. Alot of good ideas here now. I'll see what I come up with for an animation as soon as possible.

I vote for keeping it in the lemmings universe too. I like look and feel of it a lot.

And btw, I don't think we need to come up with a lot of new moves. I just played lemmings 2 (strangely enough I've never played it before until today) and there are a lot of abilities that could be useful there. The builder could have the filler ability for example. And maybe swimming for the scout. And maybe a military class for some of the weapon skills if there are going to be enemies around, although this would drift a bit away from the puzzle idea of the original lemmings.

There are descriptions of different skills from lemmings 2 here by the way, lots of inspiration : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmings_2:_The_Tribes