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[guesst]

Odd that there isn't a thread started on this already.

Did you sign it? So what do you think?

I'll save my comments on it for a bit further down the page. Just get the conversation rolling with this.

[Quintopotere]

Originally posted by guesst@May 1 2006, 03:13 PM
So what do you think?

I think that ESA will not appreciate that petition! They live "protecting" the old games...

However, I think that the petition will have no effects :tai:

[natas]

I agree. I think my idea would do a better job if enough people would make use of it.

If you don't know what I am talking about, read here ...

[Tulac]

Well probably nothing will come out of it, but it doesn't hurt to try...

[Reup]

^ That is the reason I signed as well.

Besided, we're not begging or anything. Merely suggesting a few options k:

[Icewolf]

Right. Asking is worth a try.

I'll sign as well!

[plix]

This has been discussed by myself and others at length elsewhere and many times in the past, so my response might be slightly abbreviated.

This "campaign" breaks down to nothing more than a petition. A petition is nothing more than a declaration of a grievance or request; signatures are gathered in an effort to demonstrate broad interest. Guess what? The very existence of abandonware itself suffices as such a declaration and the "signatories" -- the visitors and enthusiasts -- number in the hundreds of thousands (if not millions). This petition is no different than ICAS or any of the other organized attempts at formalization of the abandonware "movement." In the near-decade (it'll be 10 years sometime in the late fall of next year/early spring 2008) in which I've been a member of the abandonware scene I've seen more of these things than I can count. They're absolutely, 100% useless -- and this one particularly so.

Exiled Gamers? It's a remarkably small site nearly devoid of content considering it's age (the only other article was written two years ago) with a relatively small forum. BFD. Someone over there decides that they're going to start a campaign to have abandonware titles liberated? Nice thought, but wouldn't it make more sense to first try and get into contact with people from the abandonware, emulation, and/or remake scenes? Those are the very people who best understand the law, status, and environment (ESA protection, etc) surrounding these titles. Starting a petition without organizational support of the people most involved and knowledgeable reeks of attention-grabbing and short-sightedness more than anything else. While I'm not questioning the motives of the people over there, I certainly am highly suspect of their methods and dedication.

Abandonware sceners have always been among the foremost proponents of this movement. Abandonware webmasters are extremely open about who they are and that they are knowingly breaking the law in hopes of benefiting the world at large. Sure, it's not righting a grave historical injustice such as segregation or slavery, but it's still something which a great number of people feel strongly about: cultural history. Many of the oldschool emulation guys are the same way (bleeding-edge emulation is a different story; the guys writing the emulators are playing with technology for academic reasons while the guys releasing ROMs are doing it for a variety of others unrelated to those covered here).

The ESA knows of abandonware and has jumped in to drop the hammer every so often for the past decade as well (and actually before that, but that's a historical tid-bit outside the scope of this post). They are fully well aware of the rabid interest in many of these titles and in the most significant way that is exactly why they (i.e. their members; please don't respond with pedantry) will never release them for free, nor is it likely that they will release many titles at all in fear of diluting future sales of one-offs created for mobile devices and the like. The effect that emulation and abandonware has is obvious in the release of many of the arcade compilations for the newer consoles.

Signing a petition isn't going to impress upon the ESA something it already knows, nor is it going to result in the release of these games. It is a petition pleading for a free lunch from a group of for-profit corporations. In a non-creative-works field this wouldn't even approach sane (and while the very fundamental difference of production costs does exist it is easily offset by the very real impact of sales dilution): would anyone actually take seriously a petition asking Ford to give away it's old cars for free?

The only way to affect a real change in this manner is to actually put up money. Have a drive and purchase for release into the public domain these older titles. Sure, it requires more work, money, organization, and time than signing a petition, but then again, it might actually have an impact. Hey, it worked for the Blender guys.

[natas]

Originally posted by plix@May 2 2006, 10:12 AM
The only way to affect a real change in this manner is to actually put up money.* Have a drive and purchase for release into the public domain these older titles.* Sure, it requires more work, money, organization, and time than signing a petition, but then again, it might actually have an impact.* Hey, it worked for the Blender guys.

I agree to nearly everything you say, but surely not to give them money! The industry has earned money for that work already. They wouldn't have continued and live from that if it has not been enough money they earned.

Every company, regardless what they produce, should produce and act like the buyers want them to. If you agree with their products and their doing, buy their products. If you agree to their products and don't agree to their doing, don't buy their products even if you would like having them!

If enough people don't buy new products, because they not agree with the doing of the producer, the producer has exactly two choises; stop their business or do what the buyers want.

Working and earning money for that is a great thing, as long as it doesn't get too big. When a company gets as big as "microshit" and they tell you what you have to do, instead of asking what you want to do, they must be stopped.

If you want to be told by a few rich people how you should spend your life, simply continue as you suggested

[plix]

You misinterpreted what I was saying. My suggestion was actually to buy the "IP" (bad word, but you know what I mean) outright. That is to say, buying the ownership of the title rather than just buying a license ("copy"). It is the only effective, legal way of going about bringing these games into the public domain without waiting for hundreds of years in hopes that the copyrights will eventually lapse.

[natas]

Originally posted by plix@May 2 2006, 12:00 PM
You misinterpreted what I was saying.

No, I understood you right. I want them to give us the ownership for free!

I surely know that most people don't like what I say because it shows them how headless (stupid) they are acting every day, but that does not keep me from telling them. :twisted: That's why I call myself a bad boy