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[The Fifth Horseman]

HALF of the people don't even know what this issue is ACTUALLY about!?

Fine. You'll have a public announcement about it later today. PUBLIC public.

[gregor]

Law. heh... Laws are sometimes bent. ever had a policeman not giving you a ticket for speeding because you went 3kph over the limit?I have a different approach to banning and warnings. I mean really 95% of population uses the appliance before reading the manual, so how can you expect people to read and follow the forum rules to point?

Ugh things like necroposing as much as it can be annoying it also quite normal thing to do. I am just thinking what would happen if i kicked one of my client because they asked me a question that is explained or because i already told them that or warned them of that.

meh... i think people should chill. like titan said it's only a forum, not someone's life. or is it?

edit: take it "cum grano salis"

[Japo]

Holy shit this is intense. Look I know you don't need me to tell you to be friends, because if you could you would, and everybody has said it already. What I can tell you is that these differences--whatever they are, because I don't know the story--are too strong, period.

I've dwelt a couple of forums and nowhere have I found the kind of arguing you find over here again and again. Perhaps Abandonia made a mistake when heavy differences were allowed within the admin ranks. In other forums I've seen disagreeing admins and mods depart, sometimes with a handshake, sometimes with a door slam. But the admin ranks are not like the whole community: their primary aim is not to bring incompatible people together, but to function, so that the site functions and brings people together.

[Tulac]

No I think you're wrong. I'm a mod on a much bigger forum, and most of its members are under 20, and some mods can't stand each other and there are conflicts from time to time, but even that is not as bad as this.

[arete]

I think in a way this explosion happening was a good thing (in most other ways not, of course) but maybe the fact that we all have so much invested in the place emotionally is part of the problem. We need to sort out hierarchies. People need to know where they stand. You can't have staff members constantly undermining leadership decisions in public, and the fact that the head is missing while the shoulders keep the place going is the root of the problem. Not to mention the total lack of interest from Studentis, the official owners of the brand... Maybe it's good this has been aired. Probably not, but I still feel the way it was done was dirty and underhand, and that's why I was so angry.

[Japo]

Originally Posted by Tulac

No I think you're wrong. I'm a mod on a much bigger forum, and most of its members are under 20, and some mods can't stand each other and there are conflicts from time to time, but even that is not as bad as this.

I still don't think it's good anyway. And over there you probably didn't take the discussion this far, over here it's been taken to actions.

Also there are several factors interacting, namely leadership absence as Arete points out. A site can drop dead if depleted of visitors, but if it lacks the leader it will get numb.

I'm an admin in another site where the leader went missing and the site functions wishlist is frozen, and that sucks, but there are no conflicts between us and when doing the work we can, nothing like this can possibly happen.

I'm also a mod in the forum of a big software company, and they wouldn't tolerate this shit for a second--not that I can picture this happening over there to begin with. And with the plain users they're far nicer than any private community forum you could possibly think of (the worst offence over there is noob bashing--since the company isn't interested in customers being scared away when not 133t enough). And no the company doesn't have to police the mods at all, we are best buddies on our own, it's as simple as filtering people before considering them for modship, even though it's ourselves who appoint new mods--but we don't accept requests, we just invite someone and if he doesn't accept we go for the following one.

[Spoonman]

Originally Posted by Tulac

No I think you're wrong. I'm a mod on a much bigger forum, and most of its members are under 20, and some mods can't stand each other and there are conflicts from time to time, but even that is not as bad as this.

It's more intense on a forum like this because it's smaller. Throw a rock in the ocean and nothing severe happens. Throw it in a glass of water and well.. your desk will probably get wet and possibly covered with shards. (I'm sure there's a better allegory for that, but what the heck :P)

Small communities are much more personal, and I think that's why emotions can intensify like this. I've been there myself as an admin on a different forum, which had lost some animo during endless discussions (like these, although I am as oblivious of anything going on as most of the relative newbies here), people growing old, forum changes. It's pretty much life on the internet, but if you manage to take it relative you can still enjoy it as much as ever.

[AlumiuN]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

It's more intense on a forum like this because it's smaller. Throw a rock in the ocean and nothing severe happens. Throw it in a glass of water and well.. your desk will probably get wet and possibly covered with shards. (I'm sure there's a better allegory for that, but what the heck :P)

That is a brilliant allegory. I must remember that one. I have seen one forum have similar things happen (not naming any names) that would have been roughly the same size as this, and constant quibbling over small, almost irrelevant things led to an entire next-gen game being scrapped and constant infighting between two conflicting groups of moderators. They didn't address such a crisis in the open like this, and so I couldn't stand it any more and left.
Using the allegory, in this case the shards of glass effectively cut the major arteries of the rock thrower. The site still continues, but there is always some hostility among the members. As such, I'm glad that we are able to discuss this, and hopefully not fall prey to the same fate as said forum. Which, thanks to this discussion, falling prey looks unlikely.

[Eagle of Fire]

I am not a newbie and I certainly don't know much about what is going on right now.

Here is what I see at the moment: Romano is an anarchist who's been trying for a long time now to recruit people on this forum who already follow his way of thinking or to convert them to his way of thinking. That by itself would be a bannable offense for me, but I know he's a relative to Kosta and that the end of time would come before he get removed or banned.

Then, there is a discussion on this thread about rules and such, of which I really have no idea from where it is originating from. But I've read people saying that rules are not good because they are not actually having an effect on the targeted person, and that's ridiculous. Laws are not made as to penalize or make the target realize what they did, laws are made to protect those who actualy understand why they are following them. Banning someone is simply the last step in taking that person away so he/she stops disturbing the community after being warned.

Having people like BP or Romano going unchecked simply serve the opposite to law: people see that they can get away with things which are usualy banned or repressed and they start to think that it's either OK to do it or they start doing it themselves. That is a very dark path to follow, and if left unchecked would eventualy lead to anarchy.

Romano post in this thread is one which I believe is very intelligent. He is calling upon the big guns on this forum for help. But help for what exactly? He wants me to call him friend? Why would I do that? I always opposed his views, actively or secretly. His gift economy site? I find it ridiculous. His concept on increased liberties on the 'net? I find it ludicrous.

Freedom of speech is fine... But when you begin to disturb a community so much as it turn it in turmoil, there is a big problem which need to be solved right away. That's why there is Admins around in the first place.

I must say very frankly that I became to like this place less and less in the last year. But it would certainly be mainly because of the acts of a few people, not because of the way it's run.

[DoomYoshi]

??????????????
Seriously, Romano is just a crazy old man. How can you take him seriously? Oh well, he's an anarchist. I read his posts with a grain of salt. If you can't look past his beliefs to the core of what he is saying there really is a problem. Not with him. I have some Mormon friends. Anarchism makes about as much sense as being a Mormon but I tolerate them because they are gifted mathematicians. Romano provides stuff. Even on the most fundamental and greedy level, one should realize he is useful. I can't actually remember useful stuff he has contributed outside of gaming but that is the point I suppose.

As for Blood-Piggy, I would like you to forget everything you know about him for a moment. Then go and read the PC-Man review. Read the forum discussion after it. It is proof that he is a total idiot. But I'll be damned if that isn't some of the finest writing on AB. These days, I suppose that stuff qualifies for a ban. But it's priceless. Then, go watch his AB videos. I dunno. I suppose he took a turn for the worse in this past month or so, but he was antagonized.

This is sheer silliness. By the way did I miss the Public announcement? I am never on when all the big chatboxers are at it so I miss a lot