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[Fawfulhasfury]

It's time for a new debate topic! In this topic we can debate whether or not an protagonist would be able to win against/survive an unrelated antagonist. As in Could Batman catch Green Goblin, or who would win: the Joker vs. The Shadow...


And to start it off, todays debate:

WHO WOULD WIN, SHERLOCK HOLMES OR JIGSAW(THE BAD GUY IN THE SAW MOVIES)! k:

Debate and let each other know what you think.


My vote: Sherlock Holmes would easily figure out jigsaws traps and find all the uninjuring ways out of jigsaw's lairs. Then he'd hire Chuck Norris to kick Jigsaw through the space-time continuum.

[wormpaul]

The guy from the SAW movies will win..

He simply doesnt got any soul so no barriers and that makes him a killer....sherlock will always think twice before killing the other and on that moment he will strike with all his power and sherlok will be gone :Titan:

[taikara]

I think Sherlock would kick Jigsaw's booty.

Don't get me wrong, Jigsaw is one of the coolest horror/suspense antagonists to come out in many years, and he's rather smart, but Sherlock is just The Man.

I mean, Jigsaw pits himself against people who aren't even a tenth as brilliant as Sherlock. I just don't think he'd have the practice necessary to handle Sherlock's keen observational eye.

Edit: Uhh... edited to use the proper antagonist name (thanks Faw)

[Don Andy]

Well, I guess it would be Jigsaw.

Sherlock may be a bit more intelligent than his other victims, but he can just give him half of the time to figure out the puzzle before it kills him

Also, I don't think Sherlock could find any not-harmful way to get a key from behind his eye

[Stebbi]

Sherlock!

[omg]

i think it would depend on how much opium sherlock had smoked on the day he met jigsaw.

[Fawfulhasfury]

Maybe Sherlock Holmes would be put in a chamber full of either 1. gas concentrated with so much opium that overexposure could cause overdose...the catch, its foggy and sherlock can't see where the key to get out is in the maze he's been locked in.
Or 2. Sherlock Holmes must get to some opium, but he can't reach it, its past 50 whirling blades he has to manuever around. Sounds like the sort of thing Saw freak would come up with.

EDIT: And what about Watson, what would he be put up against?:P

[rlbell]

Originally posted by Don Andy@Apr 25 2006, 07:32 PM
Well, I guess it would be Jigsaw.

Sherlock may be a bit more intelligent than his other victims, but he can just give him half of the time to figure out the puzzle before it kills him

Also, I don't think Sherlock could find any not-harmful way to get a key from behind his eye

I do not know who this Jigsaw is, but the implications from what has been said, so far, about Jigsaw is that he gimmicks up a danger room, and then releases a victim into it.

Sherlock Holmes is a lot like Batman. He does not have all of Batman's fancy toys, but against the criminals he faces, he does not need them. Holmes is described by Dr. Watson, his biographer and former roommate, as someone who could easily win the boxing championship for his weight class. He is also every bit as implacable; although, he has been magnanimous to a defeated foe of the lessor sort (the concierge who succumbed to temptation and stole a valuable gem is not turned over to the police, as Holmes observes that he is hardly likely to reoffend and the gem has been recovered). Unlike Batman, Holmes has killed people, and he is every bit as ruthless as the Dark Knight. It should be noted that Holmes has killed the hard way, with no tools but his empty hands. Holmes may not carry a gun, but Watson is always ready to accompany Holmes with his sharp eye and service revolver. So far, in my readings, Watson has never fired a shot, but he has always been rather sanguine about the possibility of inflicting the sorts of wounds that he would be unable to heal.

The only reason for Holmes to be anywhere near one of Jigsaw's danger rooms is to trigger it prematurely, while Jigsaw is still setting it up, to hoist Jigsaw by his own petard. Holmes believed that kind of irony to be the best justice.

The only reason that Moriarty got as close to killing Holmes as he did was because Doyle was sick to death of the character, and killing him seemed the only way to get out from under Holmes' shadow. Unfortunately for Doyle, and happily for the rest of us, popular demand forced Doyle to admit that tales of Holmes' demise were greatly exaggerated.

[Fawfulhasfury]

Well, Jigsaw kidnaps his victims and puts them in a danger lair, not just one room sometimes, where they have to follow his riddles to get out, sometimes having to kill each other, or mame themselves to get out. But each room has a danger to it. Soemtimes he doesn't even put them in a danger room, as evidenced by the venus fly trap incident where jigsaw surgically hid a key under a mans eye, the key was to a head trap that if not activated by the key, would snap a hundred needles into the mans head. The man was not successful in getting the key. Usually each situation has three solutions. One gets the victim killed. One where the victim gets himself killed or mamed. Or one around both. I believe Holmes could find a way around both. Jigsaw also has traps designed to take care of any people sent to rescue any victims.

Another thing though is the fact that, as you said, Holmes is strong. I don't see how Jigsaw could possibly kidnap a full grown Holmes. It's like trying to survive a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. As far as irony, one of the best ironys would be for Jigsaw to end up getting caught in one of his own traps. I think that'd really "hoist him up by his own petard". One big thing though is the fact that, if Holmes was put in the danger lair scenario, Jigsaw would have other people there, and I'm not sure how Holmes would handle that part of the situation.

[rlbell]

Originally posted by Fawfulhasfury@Apr 25 2006, 11:02 PM
Well, Jigsaw kidnaps his victims and puts them in a danger lair

[snip]

Jigsaw is unlikely to pick Holmes as a victim. It should be known that the only reason that anyone knows anything about Holmes is that his friend Watson chronicled his adventures, in a sufficiently involving manner that a publisher printed them. He has a reputation, but he is not especially famous, before Watson's books are published. In fact, he is nearly destitute when Watson first meets him, as he has yet to find a way to make any money from being a consulting detective (in fact, Watson moves in with him to split the rent on rooms that Holmes cannot pay for out of his own resources). Jigsaw is unlikely to know of him.

So the most probable way for Holmes to meet Jigsaw is that he is tracking down the disappearance of one of Jigsaw's victims. In this scenario, Jigsaw will have no idea who Holmes is before he finds himself staring up the barrel of Watson's .455 Webley service revolver, as Holmes explains, with clinical detachment, how he unravelled Jigsaw's schemes.

(to wormpaul) Holmes will have thought twice about the necessity of killing Jigsaw, but he will have finished thinking and decided, by the time he asks Watson to bring his gun. Watson has never written how he felt about the possibility of gunplay, but he was in the army, has been shot himself, and never asked Holmes if he thought it was really necessary to bring the gun.