«

[_r.u.s.s.]

it wasnt poor it was just clishe=/

[Doubler]

This debate seems rather pointless, really
'Yes it is'
'No it isn't'

it wasnt poor it was just clishe[/b]

This remark will strike anyone who kept tabs on the TES, err... Bethsoft forums as horribly ironic :P

[twillight]

I could not resist doing a playthrough and tell about it.

This game is selfevident in most aproach, so I'll just tell my general strategies if I'm allowed during the completion.

My current character is a ghoul sniper, who'll actually use Gatling Laser. I was never fan of that weapon, and I don't remember me playing with a ghoul. I did play human, robot and supermutant, and has absolutly no intention to play in a singleplayer campaign with dogs.
A ghoul will do as a ranged weaponist. Never had a meleer.

Currently I'm using the latest patch and play CTB.

Ghouls CAN wear without changing the Brahmin Armour, and it is better then the basic ghoul armour (found at a special encounter, also avaiable on recruits). Leather and metal armours are out, but the rest (the unisex ones) can be worn.

My party is not perfect, but a good allaround team: Farsight (she is who should have been out for the sake of Babs), Mandy, Target, Rage, PipBoy.

Random tip: there are places where female nonlarge characters can fit through but males don't.

Stats: 6/7/2/8/6/8/6 (with Elixir of Life), Fear the Reaper, Fast shot.

On charisma: although it gives a hugh initial pool after the first mission, for the later it doesn't seem to do anything. So unless you can't wait after the second mission for Mandy or someone on her level, forget charisma.

The playthrough:
Brahmin Wood: applied tactics should come from the tutorial. Hard times can come in the cattle-pen where the guy on the other side of the fence has good aim; at the open area with cars and some 4 raiders (you suck at sniping at that point); and finaly the sharshooter up above. The stealther at the end is just an ok surprise.

Freeport: Bring double barrel shotguns for firepower, especially against sleeping people. Go right and up to disable the two siren. Go back on the right, and go left on the south. Blow up the destiller, it worth exp like an objective. Finish the rest.

Rock Falls: go right and kill everything. Go back and to the same on the left. Lockpick the door on the left side an infiltrate. Do havoc until you reach the cattle-pen. Open its gate then go back through the door you came in and do ambush in 2-3 waves against the main gate's defenses. Release the prisoners. Go in the inner castle's territory. Go up the stairs outside, then climb the wall. Go in with 2-3 people with AK47s to finish the final fight.
If you can not open the safe, come back for it later. It has a trap book, but nothing story-relating.

Macomb: Use AK47s and hunting rifles depending the circumstances. At the second gate use the car and drive in fast to kill the opposition. Avoid harming any civilians! For that reason you don't even have to use the last gate (you can drive around with minimal civil causalities. Also good idea to shoot the ones with Molotov Coctail). You can use the car to blow up mines (but don't forget to repair once i na while).

I want here to look for special encounters (in a special encounter mapgrid you can have up to 4 special encounter), and ended up some better armour and a HKCaws (by stealing, required 50% from my thief, Rage). This payed out. I did this until I've reached the Pitch Black encounter what is terribly hard. The second time I went for special encounters was after Quincy, as my level was around 8, the level of the PipBoy (you must have a crew of no more then four to make him join you full stats). For Pitch Black I've ran to the extraction point. I'll go back only when I'll have Brownings. You're supposed to be able to sneak through this, but I always found that Riddick makes himself killed by attacking the deathclaws. Pumping him with some Psycho can help when you're ready for this.

Preoria: Bring AK47's and all antidotes you have. Some shotgun can help too. If you have the HKCaws from the special encounters you can go point blank range to one or two turrets and kill it with single shot blasts (the turrets has aim like a hunting rifle: in melee they suck).

Quincy: the mission I hate the most. Bring shotguns and HP-bullets along your hunting rifles.
First make a guy climb the roof of the first building with a big gun and kill the raider leader, and stop the main siren. A big frontal assault can destroy the raiders on the first floor.
Second is to go to the row of house on the south and kill the two beastmaster and the deathclaw. It is hard. Then you can snipe the beastmasters outside the government's office. Frontal assault against the inner people leads easy success as everyone is melee inside. The room at the back has a ladder to the detention center, but don't go there yet.
Go to the ghouls on the south. Position your team to the sandbags (crouching, agressive mode, shotguns in hand, probably laying some mines if you like that), then start the rock&roll. Then change to singleshot HP weapons and run in to save the ghoul hostages.
Go north on the west to the temple. From outside you can activate the two deathclaws inside and blast them without harm. Inflaming granades work fastest, but don't overdo it, they are somewhat rare.
At the big rocks are a group of deathclaw and their master stealthing, destroy them.
Go back on the edge, into the energy factory. Use burst mode HP weapons after you shot down the light. Hope you didn't kill civilians, and the bombs got not activated.
Go near the red-light house. Make two of yours with good HP weapons go back along the western edge, as there is a ladder to a tunnel what leads INSIDE the brothel. Nice ambush can be done, minimal causalities expected on the side of the working girls. If you have trouble to find the secret tunnel go down the government building and use the view from there.
After finishing get inside the detention center. The real nuisance on the ground floor is the guy circling the building, HE has the tendency activating sirens. If you managed success go up, enter stealth mode,and make your people position on the enemy. A sudden switch to agressive mode usualy eleminiates 'em all.

[twillight]

Springfield: yes, this is the preorder-version's bonus mission, but so patheticly programmed, you can easily activate it, and it is interesting.
Pack an automatic shotgun (found one in the previous mission if nothing else) and a Steyr (better range then the autoshotguns and the best machineguns using 9mm bullets - pack HP ammo) along AK47s and hunting rifles.
Get in the buggy as soon as possible, and rally through the main street to hunt down any opposition you see with the combat shotgun and the Steyr. As this is close combat, you might arrive just before dawn.
Then get out and make your party work in twos to be the most effective and clear the area before the first gate. When done get some healing and line up before the gate, then open it in full agressive. You have some distance here, so the battle is although large and imediate, shouldn't endanger your life.
You can leave the buggy here, it won't have good use further, and is much easier to bring it out at the end of the mission.
When you reach the final building the enemy isn't hostile yet, so be prepared for an ambush. The worst thing is if you don't run in kamikaze, the head-raider will run in and kill the mayor. So buff four of your members with psycho (independently from stats that's the maximum number you can buff without anyone being addicted. Having the drug shouldn't be a problem as it is 0 weith, and all 0 weight stuff should be on you all the time). Send someone you trust with automatic shotgun a few step further, and if you have anyone hurt a lot don't patch up instead send him/her in the tower of the previous building. Run in with your squad and the massacre begins. Control only your chosen with the shotgun and position him/her at the main enterance. The rest of the party should only close until they can start shooting. With psycho in your system this battle can't mean real danger, but it is a nightmare otherwise.

Here my character got crippled (one leg). I have the Cancerous Growth, and although its HP-healing factor is negligable, within just a couple of ingame hours (from the start to the first gate) my broken appendage got healed! Ok, it's nothig major, but it IS comfortable.

Mardin: this is the last mission you'll fight unarmoured, underequipped (= not long distance shooting) enemy, so no reason to hold up any HP amo or shotgun shells. Don't forget to pack all your antidotes neither. You'll also need some hunting rifles too on the surface.
As you'll fight underground with artificial light, you are ok arriving with just before dusk. First clear the surface, then the standalone crypt.
Easiest way is to enter at the left enterance to the main complex. Bug-granades and magnum with HP bullets I used here to clear the cockroaches. The only drawback is you'll have to kill some baby-deathclaws in the nearby pit, but I'm not sure if that has any consequence on your karma anyway.
When up at the cells HOLD FIRE and not kill the prisoned deathclaws. Avoid the main room and dispatch the opposition in all the other rooms and free the slaves.
Send your most hurt person to the switch of the deathclaw-cells. Switch all your characters weapon to singleshot HP weapons. Open the cage of Mother and talk to her, imediately switch to the guy/gal at the switch to open the cells, switch back and run in to kill the leader's group. It is almost impossible to save all baby deathclaws, but only 1-2 deathes on their side and heavy damage inflicted on you can be satisfying result.

[yoga]

Originally Posted by twillight

Springfield: yes, this is the preorder-version's bonus mission, but so patheticly programmed, you can easily activate it, and it is interesting.
Pack an automatic shotgun (found one in the previous mission if nothing else) and a Steyr (better range then the autoshotguns and the best machineguns using 9mm bullets - pack HP ammo) along AK47s and hunting rifles.
Get in the buggy as soon as possible, and rally through the main street to hunt down any opposition you see with the combat shotgun and the Steyr. As this is close combat, you might arrive just before dawn.
Then get out and make your party work in twos to be the most effective and clear the area before the first gate. When done get some healing and line up before the gate, then open it in full agressive. You have some distance here, so the battle is although large and imediate, shouldn't endanger your life.
You can leave the buggy here, it won't have good use further, and is much easier to bring it out at the end of the mission.
When you reach the final building the enemy isn't hostile yet, so be prepared for an ambush. The worst thing is if you don't run in kamikaze, the head-raider will run in and kill the mayor. So buff four of your members with psycho (independently from stats that's the maximum number you can buff without anyone being addicted. Having the drug shouldn't be a problem as it is 0 weith, and all 0 weight stuff should be on you all the time). Send someone you trust with automatic shotgun a few step further, and if you have anyone hurt a lot don't patch up instead send him/her in the tower of the previous building. Run in with your squad and the massacre begins. Control only your chosen with the shotgun and position him/her at the main enterance. The rest of the party should only close until they can start shooting. With psycho in your system this battle can't mean real danger, but it is a nightmare otherwise.

Here my character got crippled (one leg). I have the Cancerous Growth, and although its HP-healing factor is negligable, within just a couple of ingame hours (from the start to the first gate) my broken appendage got healed! Ok, it's nothig major, but it IS comfortable.

Mardin: this is the last mission you'll fight unarmoured, underequipped (= not long distance shooting) enemy, so no reason to hold up any HP amo or shotgun shells. Don't forget to pack all your antidotes neither. You'll also need some hunting rifles too on the surface.
As you'll fight underground with artificial light, you are ok arriving with just before dusk. First clear the surface, then the standalone crypt.
Easiest way is to enter at the left enterance to the main complex. Bug-granades and magnum with HP bullets I used here to clear the cockroaches. The only drawback is you'll have to kill some baby-deathclaws in the nearby pit, but I'm not sure if that has any consequence on your karma anyway.
When up at the cells HOLD FIRE and not kill the prisoned deathclaws. Avoid the main room and dispatch the opposition in all the other rooms and free the slaves.
Send your most hurt person to the switch of the deathclaw-cells. Switch all your characters weapon to singleshot HP weapons. Open the cage of Mother and talk to her, imediately switch to the guy/gal at the switch to open the cells, switch back and run in to kill the leader's group. It is almost impossible to save all baby deathclaws, but only 1-2 deathes on their side and heavy damage inflicted on you can be satisfying result.

Gatling Laser
I always think this is the best weapon after AK47 and Colt 45 but well respected twillight said no good word for it.

Strange but i agree.

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

Gatling Laser
I always think this is the best weapon after AK47 and Colt 45 but well respected twillight said no good word for it.

Strange but i agree.

Well, GL is definitly the bestdesign weapon, but from the few experience I used it it just lacks the sheer penetration of Browning, the distance of Laser Rifle, and eats ammo like no tomorrow compared to Y9K.
But I've designed my protagonist the way to use that, so we'll have further data later.

Now I can only report St. Luis:
This is the mission you'll most probably think they just screwed with you as half of your team will have only 5 ST, and most probably none will have the advanced weapon skills (not to mention the lack of energy weapons). so when assembling the party it can be a good idea to choose some leecher with initially tagged BigGuns skill.
Otherwise you'll have to choose from two tactic, the first being obvious: outdistance the mutants. With the new sniper rifle this is just plain offer.
The second is to pack in a lot of repair kit, especially as you will have to preserve the APC at all cost from dropping 0 HP - last of this kind of objectives. Jump in the whole squad, give them somewhat shortranged weapons (like combat shotguns with regular ammunition - all your party should have 100% in small guns at this point), and lay on the shift button for extra speed, and roam into the crossfire. If the vehicle has 200+ HP, it will survive this.
Either way you will have to pack some strong weapons as you'll have to do an ambush when going to waypoint 2.
The rest is streightforward, but my advice is do NOT try to enter the mutant base, not even bother with the northern tunnels.
Last note: here'll you find first time the Table-Mines. They are dangerous to disarm, so save regularly. If in though guy mode, don't even try, just blast 'em away with weapon fire.

Jefferson City:
You only need to outwit the enemy. You'll need FIREPOWER for all range, and some granades are good idea too. With smallguns this mission is very doable. The excitement comes that you have to think ahead, thus make large circles around for better position many times.
The car should be used only once: where you start on the left in a guardpost is a mutant. There is no trick avaiable against it, so jump in the car and drive close fast. The car suffers damage easily, so no more ambushes for you, but is a god backpack.
There are two unfinished buisness here: the sidedoor to the lab can not be opened no way (probably to not be able to avoid the fight with the commander), and the five mutants at the side of the map are never activated (and their door open at unknown condition). Those mutants are ok to steal from, but otherwise leave nonhostile ones alone.
Hardest spot it the second generator which guard towers are turned off if ALL generators are out. If possible disable the generator, then come back later to finish the job. Wasting Flamethrower on the turrets is cheap idea then.

Kansas City:
If there is time to gamble anytime, it is before this mission. Gamble away ALL STUFF from the local quatermaster. Don't take this mission forward as you'll need every bit of power for this. Actually by the mission briefing the stroy even requires it not furthering this!
Come here at night, and play the start in turn based mode.
The east and west gate can NOT be breached, so you don't have to send there anyone if you don't want. By power-wise the requirement of the gates are: west: 1 person, east: 2 person, south: all the others.
For start pack enlarged amount of ammunition as the imediate battle is demanding. Otherwise since the supermutants showed up you never have to worry about ammo during missions.
the rest is just the usual, but note: there is almost no chance to save ALL the ghouls (especialy the one outside the east gate). But more then a couple causalities would mean worse reward!

[yoga]

Excuse me , barat twillight,

what do You think about comparing FO2 with FT?
Would be so kind share Your impressions concerning both games?
I know You are an expert in Fallout stuff.

Thank You for Your time.

yoga who is fighting now in the realm of Oblivion gates

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

Excuse me , barat twillight,

what do You think about comparing FO2 with FT?
Would be so kind share Your impressions concerning both games?
I know You are an expert in Fallout stuff.

Thank You for Your time.

yoga who is fighting now in the realm of Oblivion gates

Always the pleasure brave yoga

So, compare F2 with Ft start with the interface.
FT basically kept the same look, although there happened a lot of improvement in the engine by texture and avaibility. Simply said FT looks as much better then the Fallout RPGs as much later it was introduced.

FT kept the same board like F2 when you think about the character sheet, inventory and skillboard, but had some very important advancements, namely: "smart run" what makes your character always run except when stealthing, and some much needed "change position", so you can now prone and crouch.
It also made avaiable to play in non-turnbased system, while implemented the Overwatch from Jagged Aliance, what gave it an improvement on both Fallout and Jagged Aliance games if you ask me.

FT though has some field lacking.
The most important is, if you do not use the latest patch the game likes to crash. Interrestingly with my current install it does not crash, I think the reason is a new version of the patch. Not that "though guy" mode would ever be too popular considering the lenght of the missions (they ARE make you busy for quite some time), but still.
Second is more important from gamer-view: some skills are simply lacking use, like Pilot. Sadly vehicles were although a good idea, they have limited use, and the skill don't give you really noticable gain.
Also some perks are although in the manual are not implemented in the game (there are three: Sniper, Bend the Rules, Break the Rules). Gamble is not explained anywhere, and it is ridiculous to use (especially at Bunker Gamma's quatermaster).

The biggest difference between the two is, that FO2 was an RPG, while FT is a combat game. This means in FT linearity is very much present, although sometimes you can choose which mission to do first.

On story-wise FT tells the story of the BoS from a soldier of the Brotherhood's position, thus it don't give the multiply endings for all visited locations. BUT as the game provides 4 possible endings for the singleplayer campaign where all faction you've met will be mentioned AND gives the multiplayer option, it is pretty much acceptable if you ask me.
FT also kept most of the equipmentpool of FO2, like KeyCards, the infamous Hunting Rifle and Power Armour - but as being part of the military (and especially BoS member), you have a much wider source, and even some curiosity like the Acid Sprayer.

The introducement of experience, new equipment and recruits is well balanced, although the shops are not.

Above all you have to always remember FT is a combat-game. Actually not even one, but TWO game!
FT without ANY patch is a very different game with entirely other recruits and combat mode preference. Without patch FT is almost exactly matches FO2 when fighting. Realy: you step out, shoot, hide back - intense use of flexible perk, direct covers, action points.
WITH the patch on the other hand FT turns to a much intense experience, where you're better off doing combat in real time mode, switching fast between characters and character main/off hands. The recruits' abilities are entirely redrawn (these are what you can find on the net, not the unpatched version). Flexibility-perks loose almost all value (what is a sad thing, but it definitly make battles more exciting).
I also never heared about anyone who used unarmed/melee combat even around midgame (when I've done a playthrough with a onecharacter supermutant I stole myself a big gun as soon as I could with like 50 load back to not get caught).

We have to mention Random Encounters too, and maximum level.
In FT you will gain most exp from mission-rewards, and not fighting-exp.
The vehicles do not need fuel.
Exp-limit in FO2 is 99 (30 can be gained easily at least), while FT has the limit of 24, so you better plan forward (especially as you'll have no statimprovement surgical implants and such, except 1 gain on Endurance).
Random Encounters at start are much more frequent in FT, but at least the map, the distances you'll travel are less. Still bloody annoying until you'll have 60+ outdoorsman from where they'll be much less frequent and you'll be able to click "not visit".
Special Encounters in FT are restricted to "special map grids". On each of those you'll be able to find 3-4 special encounters if you travel the edge of the sectors. Worst trick is though from the programmers, that the Pitch Black encounter is fixed to show up after a certain number of SEs, and it is so hard I only go there with 3 Brownings and such heavy equpiments (and to keep Ridick alive I overdose him with 2 Psycho, lol). 'Cause of this system encounter-finding perks are useless of course

As conclusion: FT is a Fallout-game, although a spinoff. It has some faults just like the other games in the series, but it DID make the breakthrough to anew the series. This is also the only part of the theme where the protagonist can be changed to a nonhuman race, and face it: there is nothing better then spraying bullets from a heavy machingun for a measly 2 AP. You also have full control on your party (with equipments, skill distribution, etc.).
So even though FT is not that deep as FO2, but especially for a casual gamer (who don't want heavy forknowledge of the game) it is very much affordable experience.

[twillight]

I made some real runs for Kansas City, so I am able to give some ample tips:
- Fear the Reaper can kill you (this is a ghoul trait), not just damage you to "almost dead" status. Also it has some aftereffect when you can leed to death if you have very low HP (I had 1 HP as result of FtR when this happened). This is not of the mission, but useful anyway.
- bring double amount of ammo and very strong weaponry. Also rise your skills by some points (for me 115% small guns and 100% big guns did the trick, and theoreticaly you can start to use laser pistols). Pack lots of healing, amongst others 1 super stimpack to everyone at least.
- to have minimal causalities imediatelly at the start send 1 person to the east gate WITH A BROWNING AND LOTS OF AMMO. Run OUT of town. Have turn based mode active! This person will be the reason of the battle's start. For me this was PipBoy, so had to eat a buffout to have the stat (he has 7 ST and with 1 dose of the drug has 9). After all seen mutants are killed do NOT send this one back, but send into the house on the left side of the gate imediate! there will be a mutant who is part of the official waves, and can shoot through the walls (don't ask, but it can cost a ghoul).
- until the first char goes to position send another with automatic shotgun to west! This will be enough to stop the mutants there. Oh, do all this AT NIGHT. A third person should be sent to the ghoul leader to talk until it gives some stuff. This person will be sent after job done to the south gate.
- the rest should be knelt at the south gate.
- There are some hard points with the waves of mutants, namely: on the other side of the fence of south (on the west) a mutant with machingun will come, so have someone there to avert fire. The ranged mutants usually have heavy amour what just ruins your life. The melee mutants are many, so have heavy close firepower. At the very end on the south a lone mutant will come with Rocket Launcher. That one is NOT part of the official waves, so have some delay to able you posiotion your people there, but he will come, so don't forget.
- after the defence it is really just "from house to house", but keep in mind granades and forced fire (with granades you can attack through fances). Despite all there is a house on the south side of the city what is guarded by 3 mutant behind sandbags. One of them has THE position, so the only solution I found was to run in with all firepower and blast his head from close. But against unarmored critters you can achieve even stunlock with a full party in CTB.

[yoga]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

After this nice and detailed view of very kind twillight who can dare saying:
- FT is a crap.
No one.

Bravo again, polite twillight!

That's why brave is about 6 years in AB site and every day even before my asanas i visit AB.
Because of gentlemen as twillight, Hunvagy, Master Scatty, Kmonster, Caro Capo, Japo and many more.

After so nice propaganda the brave after Oblivion probably will start FT.
Hope my old PC will meet the requirements..

Köszönöm, twillight.