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[wardencz]

Originally Posted by twillight

For one last time: You don't get Gauss Rifle until the very end of the game, while Bozar or Laser rifle comes almost at the start.

Also it seems you simply can not use Laser Rifle well. Plasma Rifle is only better in theoretic, as it is slower, and has terrible aim. With Laser Rifle aim for the eyes, and you can spit on any armor after they melt.

By the way Hunting/Sniper rifle are only for long distance, when you try to shoot something close they have terrible aim. Not to mention they do pathetic damage.

Blast it, w/e, it's pointless, we could argument this way loads of time, without having a common conclusion.

[wardencz]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

It may be viable, but it's useless, nothing does as much damage as Unarmed and nothing causes the same criticals and crippling blows as Unarmed does in the Melee spectrum. It's useless, it's the only weapon skill that doesn't at least do something interestingly from the others enough to make it worth playing.

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.
It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Also Per's guide is the most comprehensive, I don't see why you'd slum around on guides with terrible information that most likely HAVE been stolen from Per's guide but whatever, the information in Per's guide is correct, the information is the most useful, and the guide is considered by the community to be the best. I don't see where there's a question here regarding which is objectively better since well, there isn't anything better than Per's guide when it comes to Fallout.

In this case, I pretty much have to agree with Twillight, HtH combat isn't pointless and getting a perk Slayer/Sniper isn't a matter of grinding, I pretty much had it every single game I played it over.

[Sarin]

Properly built, small guns character is definitely best. 10 luck (I think 7 or 8 at start and buff it up with various stuff), Sniper perk, 10 agi (again, buffed up later), Bonus Rate of Fire perk, and maybe some Action Boy perks. It gives you extremely high rate of fire, every hit even with burst is critical equals massive damage...use P90 for very fast kills and Gauss Rifle for sniping...and everyone can just bow down and die.

Since small guns are available from start and are possible to buff to 90 or 100% purely with books, you'll become killing machine very quickly while still retaining enough points to specialize in other stuff too.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally Posted by wardencz

In this case, I pretty much have to agree with Twillight, HtH combat isn't pointless and getting a perk Slayer/Sniper isn't a matter of grinding, I pretty much had it every single game I played it over.

There's no reasoning as to why you don't think Melee is pointless, I'm not talking about Unarmed, which is practically the same thing as Melee except Melee is entirely pointless since it's much worse than Unarmed, the only thing that makes it worthwhile is the Super Sledge and that's one item. Damage Resistances vary wildly for the differing weapon types (except for Power Armored foes which tend to soak up most Small Gun and Big Gun rounds) but for melee, which is entirely structured to the point that later on it's absolutely useless, whereas the high critical chance of improved Unarmed skill is devastating.
Also I already said that the level 24 perks that are in Fallout 1 as well as Fallout 2 are level 18 perks in Fallout 1. You aren't going to reach 24, there isn't enough net experience unless you go around slaughtering everything after finishing quests.

[Scatty]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

the only thing that makes it worthwhile is the Super Sledge and that's one item.

Also Lightsaber in Killap's Restoration Patch, which is even stronger than Super Sledge and does Plasma or Laser damage if I recall correctly. Can't be found until very late in the game, in San Francisco.
Why are you guys arguing about how one should play Fallout anyway? Just play everyone the way you like it and all are happy. This endless discussion is so pointless.

[twillight]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

Unarmed - It's useless, it's the only weapon skill that doesn't at least do something interestingly from the others enough to make it worth playing.

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.

It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Also Per's guide is the most comprehensive, I don't see why you'd slum around on guides with terrible information that most likely HAVE been stolen from Per's guide but whatever, the information in Per's guide is correct, the information is the most useful, and the guide is considered by the community to be the best. I don't see where there's a question here regarding which is objectively better since well, there isn't anything better than Per's guide when it comes to Fallout.

1) "Not interresting" doesn't mean it is "not useful".

2) When you have low luck, you'll miss on a hugh percentage. I wouldn't call that negligable.

3) It is POSSIBLE, to reach level 24 in F1, and much higher in F2. You should do all quests next time. You and others being lazy doesn't mean it is not there. I every time reach level 24 in F1 (I think there is an exp limit on that), and level 99 in F2 (and for the first time, when I didn't abused the bug and din't know about all the hidden things I ended up level 26-28 without doing fighting random encounters).

4) As I said Per's guide might be correct on what he says, but he says not everything.

[The one who flew]

The best F2 character looks something like this:

ST 5
PE 8
EN 2
CH 6
IN 8
AG 10
LK 8

Gifted
Fast shot

Small guns
Speech
Lockpick

The best gun is Gauss Pistol. With 12 AP (2xAction boy) you do six shots, all critical of course with Sniper and LK 10, knocking down or insta-killing 6 enemies per turn. Fighting lots of enemies such as in the enclave or military base is easy, you don't get shot at much as you keep knocking them all down.

I made a Fast shot character specifically to use big guns and ended up using the Gauss Pistol with my non-tagged small guns skill because 6 single shots with that were just much more effective than 3 bursts with vindicator or anything.

You can take a perk of Lifegiver if the low EN bothers you, 2 points of EN gives you 1 hp/lvl, lifegiver gives you 4 hp/lvl so you get that back quite fast.

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

That's semantics, also the amount that Luck factors into other abilities is negligible, so you might as well not mention it at all.
It is not possible to reach level 24 doing all the quests in Fallout 1 or 2, it isn't, you can say that however much you want, but nearly the whole community of NMA would agree with me, and it's been discuss limitless times in threads where people have mentioned grinding to get perks such as Slayer in Fallout 2, which in that game is a level 24 perk, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

This is so wrong... Fallout 2 is much bigger than Fallout and you'll get a much higher level. You mention Per's guide, well if you make a gifted charismatic team player like suggested and do every quest in the game you're sure to end up somewhere around lvl 27 at least.

My go-everywhere-do-everything playthrough of killap's latest RP ended up with lvl 32 I believe, with zero grinding random encounters for stuff. Sure I fought random encounters when they came but didn't walk around the wilderness to get guns to sell or anything. Sure the RP adds the EPA and a couple of quests here and there but I doubt that they account for 10 lvls worth of xp.

Maybe in the first game you need to grind a bit to get slayer or sniper, or you get them so late in the game that you don't benefit from them for the majority of time playing the game.

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

4) As I said Per's guide might be correct on what he says, but he says not everything.

I disagree. It has pretty much everything.

[twillight]

The "best" character looks like this:

ST 3+6 = 9
PE 8+2 = 10
EN 2+1 = 3
CH 7+3(-2) = 10 (8)
IN 8+2 = 10
AG 8+2 = 10
LK 7+3 = 10

And 4 free point to spend between charisma and endurance depends on wether you want Mark II implants or not.

Traits: Gifted, Small Frame

Tags: Energy weapons, Speech, Unarmed, Lockpick (slight variatons can be done)

Shooting down 4 enemy per round is more then enough, no need to swap weapons between close and sniping range. In enclave no fight is needed (except the boss).

For Big Guns use Bozar (in F2). Using Vindicator is a mistake. Also with Big Guns learn to position yourself (to have more enemy in line). Also the adventage of Big Guns is, that even with lesser luck (for example) you'll kill for sure (because of the massive amount of bullets). The problem with Big Guns is, that nonhostile NPCs tend to walk into your line of fire.

[kmonster]

The "best" FO2 character should be able to defeat Horrigan, his soldiers and the turrets together without using healing chems if he wants, even if they get criticals on their first attack.
The "best" FO2" character doesn't get killed instantly by an armor bypassing critical with heavy weapons, he's not a wimpy low HP character who has to exploit save/reload when this happens.
The "best" FO2 character can take the perks he needs without using the drug exploit to raise stats before levelling up.

A character starting with 2 EN is a wimp who has to exploit the game mechanics to be able to take lifegiver to get decent HP.

[kmonster]

Originally Posted by twillight

A thing about stealing: certain NPCs if you steal from them (even with success), later become hostiles, what will be trouble. This is rare, but you should look up them in a walkthrough, and only steal things with real value (like drugs, good weapons and ammo, books)...

I've never heard of someone getting hostile successfully pickpocketing someone.