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Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Wrong. My experiences (v1.31) says that computer never break any pacts by it's initiative. It is only your fault.

Honestly, how subtle is your game experience if you are saying this? The AIs will sooner or later declare war on you no matter what you do (or do not) - which is what any experienced player will tell you. And FAQ has it too.

And if you are saying I am wrong, try next time when playing MoM with 4 opponents, small land masses.
After the first AI declares war on you, go into Historian screen and look at the date. It will be (most probably) "June 2008". This is equal to turn 100 as I have stated above. Very rarely you get a slightly later date.

If you see something different, then come back here and tell me I was wrong.

[Pex]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Wrong. My experiences (v1.31) says that computer never break any pacts by it's initiative. It is only your fault.

You receive warning and slight decrease in relations if you'll end your turn close than 2 squares away of cities (the same zone that visible in city map, I presume). If you simply pass this zone, it is safe. And war, if this state remained more than 2 turns in row.

Doesn't match my experience (and I'm using v1.31 as well). Sometimes they declare against you with no obvious reason. Sometimes they don't give you a warning that you are near their city. In a few games I played it happened to me that I didn't even know I was in their city zone (cause the city was still within fog-of-war) and they didn't warn me, but then the next turn they declared saying they did warn me.

I've also noticed that you can destroy an outpost without consequnces - no war declaration. I often follow their settlers, wait for them to make an outpost and then destroy it. If you attack settlers, they'll probably escape and you risk the war.

1. There could be fixed population in dungeons for start - but it is increased over time! (At least on last difficulty level - Impossible, I think?). When lair reached full capacity, it began to spawn it's habitants into outer world, upgrading simultaneously population inside lair. So in first 100 turns in Sorcery nodes you will meed one-two Phantom beasts with five Illusion Warriors, but after, say, 500 turns it will be full set of 8 Sky Drakes.

I didn't play on Impossible difficulty level but I didn't notice this happening on Hard level. I attack evey lair/node/tower as soon as I find it (but I save the game first). If I can't defeat whatever is in, I reload and write down the monsters so I can attack later with appropriate troops and it's always the same enemies. Maybe I don't give them enough time to build more.

They do send roaming monsters out from time to time, though.

2. There is always question of relative strength. Computer takes into account all "innate" abilities and number of units, but, it seems, don't count hero/unit enchantments and items. So heroes always receive better rewards, and better when they are in small numbers. Also only current opponent's strength counts. If you killed 7 Wyrms and retreated from one single bear, than returned and kill the bear - you will receive only reward for this bear, and this is all.

Interesting point. I haven't tried this yet - usually if I have to retreat that means I'm badly beaten (and then I lose some troops in retreating as well), so I have to reload anyway.

[Borodin]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

My experiences (v1.31) says that computer never break any pacts by it's initiative. It is only your fault.

I suspect you don't mean this to sound either so dismissive or so certain. I've been playing MoM since it first came out (I reviewed it at the time), and I've certainly had allies break pacts with me. Happens all the time. As soon as you become powerful enough to be perceived as a threat, even the friendliest AI players will turn on you. This bit of AI was developed by Sid Meier, and it turns up again in Alpha Centauri (which was not, contrary to belief, authored by Meier, but used much of his AI code). You can just watch the impression you make on AI-driven players slowly drift down as you become very big--and it's not too long before pacts are broken for stated reasons that make no sense at all.

Which is why I've always preferred Civ IV's system of telling you exactly why an opponent AI feels the way they do about you, even down to giving it exact numbers.

Perhaps you just played on the easy level. I have no other idea why you would state such a thing, because it runs completely contrary to the way the game acts.

Originally Posted by Borodin

As soon as you become powerful enough to be perceived as a threat, even the friendliest AI players will turn on you.

I thought so too. But then I played test games (using Alt+RVL cheat to make contact with AIs) staying in one city, no development at all, no movement, no research.

As soon as you get over the June 2008, all AIs break pacts and declare war on you even if you are 100x weaker than them. - It is a bug that touches the AIs that are not present on your continent. The programmers messed up the continental threat fonction.

[Oso]

I've pretty much assumed that in most 4X games (certainly in the majority that I have played) that the AIs will turn on you in any case and played accordingly. Like Borodin, I played MoM from the day it hit the shelf until I bought a machine that wouldn't play it and no matter how carefully I played, the AI's all turned on me sooner or later (mostly sooner). So I quit trying to make them friendly. Use them for spell trading as long as possible then "Do unto them...before they did unto me".

Plus, I got into the habit of picking myrran (my favorite combo was almost always Myrran, Warlord, Archmage then 5 books in whatever spell color I felt like that game) and ruthlessly exterminating any of the AI players there and plugging up the Towers of Wizardry as soon as I find them. That generally put me on the bad side of the AIs fairly early in any case. Can't tell you how many times I have popped a Tower only to find it 1 or 2 spaces away from some Wizard's Enchanted Fortress or have it be right smack in the middle of their empire.

This has become even more of an issue since I applied the unofficial v2.0 patch. With the settlers now able to swim, I don't leave an open Tower of Wizardry unlugged any longer than I have to and that generally means killing a stack or two of an AI's troops and absorbing their counterattacks. Neither of which is conducive to amiable relations

Originally Posted by Oso

It has never occurred to me to check on my own but, according to the section in the strategy guide, there is no mention made on land mass size. Until I get motivated enough to check on my own I am going to assume that it doesn't matter.

_It does not. I just checked a Nature's Awareness save for Medium and Small. 6 Towers, 14 Myrror Nodes, 16 Arcanus Nodes.

→Specter
_You seem to have misread or not read at all, and although easily remedied, I'll note what hasn't been. (I would ask what game version you are running, but you have told me with a question.)
_I have noticed no difference in the tax money paid when the populace was divided into farmers and workers, and completely to farmers. That, and I was speaking of when there was already a project going, and the value of free gold from management.
_I forgot nothing with the planar towers; when you plan a road on suitable ground, then shift planes*, the road will be built regardless, even over water. *To clarify, you need the view to be on the "invalid" plane when the selection switches to the Engineer's turn. It's safer to select the Engineers on the plane you wish them to build at the beginning of every turn, and to keep the view on that plane at the end of every turn. At least until they finish their first section. You might have to keep doing it if they have the plane-shifting ability.
_Kyrubb already noted the Air Mage drag was a bug. Although I discovered in my current game if all the units are flying regardless (Draconians) the counter will say "0.5" after the flyer's two moves, but I can still move all the supposed distance.

_On the subject of army strength effecting treasure, I haven't noticed any difference when varying the amount of four heroes, a shaman, and two longbowmen troops. When they were all together, and I was testing a Volcano with two Fire Giants and some Hell Hounds, it had a reward of a prisoner, one spell, and 200 mana crystals. Defeating the node with only the Valkyrie of the group provided the exact same reward. The spell gained seemed to about the same value every time, varying from Hell Hounds to Awareness equally.
However, I have never tested how the treasure varies when you lose once while taking out much of their forces then win. This must be done for science. Although not Dwarven Science, this game isn't free enough for that.

_On Hard mode, it seems like creature growth only extends to the weaker creatures; such as adding skeletons or phantom warriors. Does the treasure gained correspond to creature growth on Impossible? Or is it skewed sufficiently downward?

_Kyrubb, I wanted to ask, how do you identify which save file is which when you seem to have more save files that saves in the game? Making a new save doesn't change anything.
I also now assume it is a bug that I managed to achieve 16 spellbooks. Would it be possible to remove the book and ability cap in your mod?

_Is anyone ever entertained by the horrible AI? I was entertained when they had a force that could take one of my outposts, yet decided to attack one troop at a time, making them manageable to my archers.

[Pex]

Originally Posted by Nivm

_Is anyone ever entertained by the horrible AI? I was entertained when they had a force that could take one of my outposts, yet decided to attack one troop at a time, making them manageable to my archers.

I had a case when between attacking my city with a single unit of spearmen and my army of 3 heroes and 6 other units (too far to reach the city before the enemy) they decided to attack the latter and of course got smashed.

Another case was when they conquered my city (there was nothing I could've done), but I had to reload the game from that turn because I forgot to change production in another city and made some settlers that I didn't need. I made exactly the same moves (except from changing that production), but in enemy turn they decided not to attack that city but move away from it.

But I belive the best one is this time when I was 'camping' next to an enemy wizard's capital waiting for my other troops to arrive so I could take the city (something I often do). Now, there's no point mentioning that the enemy could've attacked me and crushed me any time with those forces in the capital. What he did though was that he moved out some bowmen units out of the city so he could have space to produce and summon something quite useless (can't remember what). So I crushed him the next turn without those troops I was waiting for.

Originally Posted by Nivm

_Kyrubb, I wanted to ask, how do you identify which save file is which when you seem to have more save files that saves in the game? Making a new save doesn't change anything.

I am not sure if I understand your question. Saves are put in the save#.gam files in the MoM directory, where # is the number of the save slot in the Game screen. If you make a new save, you overwrite automatically the old one.

Now, if you want to help me find the bugs, once you witness something weird, you go immediately (without quitting) to the MoM directory, grab your last save, rename or copy it to something like windwalking_bug.gam. And contact me afterwards ****** very grateful reaction from me.

I also now assume it is a bug that I managed to achieve 16 spellbooks. Would it be possible to remove the book and ability cap in your mod?

"My mod" is not a mod. It is a simple attempt to correct the in-game bugs and remove the main AI blunders and stupidities. So no modding.

[TotalAnarchy]

Just when this discussion was getting interesting. From now on, Master of Magic is sold on GOG.

[Pex]

We can still talk about it...