«

[Zarkumo]

Hi guys,

I've got a question about the personal pronoun "who" as it is used in non-defining relative clauses in English.

Which sentence is correct English:

"You, who seems to be a nice guy, play a lot of computer games."

or

"You, who seem to be a nice guy, play a lot of computer games."

That is, does the "who" take on the properties of the subject in the main clause (second person singular in this case), or is it always third person?

Let's leave aside for a moment the fact that the construction above is probably quite awkward either way. But we Germans just love relative sentences, and no language in the world will stop us producing them!

If admin and mods don't object, feel free to use this thread for your own questions on English grammar. But please only after my question is answered.

Thanks for answers!

[Aguirre]

I would bet my money for seems

[A. J. Raffles]

Seem. The subject of the sentence is "you".

Edit: What makes you think "who" refers to the third person?

[Fruit Pie Jones]

"Seem" sounds correct to me too. I'm trying to find a hard-and-fast rule for such things right now.

[Evad]

I use this kind of sentence structure a lot when I'm writing. I'd be interested in the correct answer. Personally I usually use:
You, who seem to be a nice guy, play a lot of computer games. Upon reflection I believe that this is because if you split the sentence by the comma, and look at the second section, "who 'seems' to be a nice guy" can be a question if all you do is add a question mark at the end, where-as, if you eliminate the 's',: who seem to be a nice" really could only have one meaning unless you are in some inner-city ghetto down in manhattan...LOL (my attemp at a joke). I believe there is an english professor on this forum that could answer this question with finallity.....

[Zarkumo]

Originally posted by A. J. Raffles@Aug 1 2005, 06:30 PM
Seem. The subject of the sentence is "you".

Edit: What makes you think "who" refers to the third person?

I would think so, too, as "who" is a relative pronoun, and refers to "you" in the main clause.

This question came up on a German site, and I thought the wrong construction with "seems" would be a translation error. But then it just occurred to me that a third person verb would also be wrong in German. So, I don't know where this idea comes from; but obviously, it must come from somewhere, as Aguirre just lost all his money in his bet on "seems".

[Kon-Tiki]

Take that sentence apart and you'll see two parts:

1: You play a lot of computer games
2: You seem to be a nice guy

These two parts're fit into each other. Play will be the verb for the first You, while Seem will be the verb for the second. To make both sentences fit into each other, the second You is changed into Who ("You, you seem to be a nice guy, play a lot of computer games" isn't quite right, now is it)

Who, on the other hand, isn't 2nd person singular, but 3rd person singular, just like He. You won't say: "He seem to be a nice guy", but instead say: "He seems to be a nice guy." Same goes for Who. "Who seem to be a nice guy" is utterly wrong, while "Who seems to be a nice guy" is correct.

Back to the original sentence, that Seems will be correct, while Seem won't, as they refer to Who, not You. If it'd refer to You, I'd like to see what the rest of the sentence'd look like, especially with that Play. "You seem play a lot of computer games" perhaps?

[A. J. Raffles]

Originally posted by Kon-Tiki@Aug 1 2005, 07:21 PM
Who, on the other hand, isn't 2nd person singular, but 3rd person singular, just like He. You won't say: "He seem to be a nice guy", but instead say: "He seems to be a nice guy." Same goes for Who. "Who seem to be a nice guy" is utterly wrong, while "Who seems to be a nice guy" is correct.

Sorry to contradict you there, Tiki, but it's only used as a third person singular in that particular sentence. It could be used in lots of other contexts in which it didn't stand for a third person singular, though: "Those ill-dressed people who just went into the French restaurant look like crooks to me.", "Who were your parents?", "Who of you got the correct answer to question 2b?" "Those of you who did get the correct answer can leave.", etc.
"Who" is just a pronoun, so it's determined by what it stands for, but it doesn't have any properties of its own, really.

[Kon-Tiki]

It's 'bout this particular sentence, and not 'bout any other, no? It stays relevant. If I'd've gone on 'bout how it's only for this particular sentence and not for every single one, I'd've gone too far away from the matter at hand.

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Zarkumo@Aug 1 2005, 08:24 PM
That is, does the "who" take on the properties of the subject in the main clause (second person singular in this case), or is it always third person?

It surely does take the properties of the subject in the main clause. Why wouldn't it (unless you're living in Brooklyn).
If who is used as a pronoun it always takes the characteristics of the noun it refers to.