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[Grinder]

As some of you know, I started a sort of manual to help people build the perfect PC for all old DOS games. Now I need some help! I already started an outline and put in some basic text, and i want to make it a kind of wiki so that everyone can contribute to a magnificient community project!
I included the .rtf file in this post. Please stick to the layout and let's keep it clean and simple. Anyone can edit anything, and I will form a document from the changes/suggestions you made. Please submit changes by posting excerpts from the text including your changes here. Thanks for helping!

Download the outline first

Then the .rtf file itself

[The Fifth Horseman]

Ok, first things first, the title of 1.2.1 should be 486. Not Intel 468, because AMD also produced 486 CPU's.
Also, there are the AMD K5's. Basically their Pentium equivalent.
The 486 & Pentium days were before the manufacturers started using proprietary socket standards, so a K5 will fit where a Pentium used to be and vice versa. The only thing that needs changing is the jumper setting.

Also, from what do I know the AMD CPU's of that era handle overclocking much better.

What do I suggest for 486 is 486 DX4/100. That's more or less equivalent to Pentium 90, but can run things meant for P133 without any noticeable slowdowns (been there, done that).


For section 1.3 (RAM), I'd like to say that - from what I heard - some 486 machines may also require paired modules. In all cases, the best idea is to check motherboard manual to confirm that. My own Shuttle HOT-433 motherboard did not require paired modules, for instance.

Some early Pentium boards may not handle larger DIMM modules - eg it may only show 8 megs of the memory, even if the module is several times larger.

Also, when I say "paired" modules I mean identical modules from the same manufacturer, not just same size modules. Without paired modules, the computer may work, but you will experience random crashes and memory corruption.


Graphics cards... well, if you want DOS games you'll want an SVGA-compatibile one. 1 MB memory should be right enough for nearly all DOS games and some of the Windows ones, altough you can go anywhere up to 8 MB (Windows games that make use of Smacker Video encoding for cutscenes may experience glitches in the cutscenes on cards with less RAM).
NOTE: some of the larger cards may not be compatibile with 486 motherboards. A perfectly functional ATI Rage XL did not cope with - also perfectly functional - Shuttle HOT-433 motherboard. So unless you are sure you'll need a better one, stay with 1-meggers.


Sound card: It should be noted that there was a type of soundcards called "Roland LAPC-I" (that's large "i", not "1"). These babies were for ISA slot and pretty huge in terms of size taken inside the machine, but had an onboard integrated Roland MT-32 midi synthethiser.


Hard Drives:
For DOS, just almost anything. 200 MB should be sufficient, if not satisfactory. There is little point in going over 1 GB.
For Windows, 800 MB or higher (or 800 MB single partition).


It's a wise precaution to make sure your hard drives are SMART-capable and your motherboard can read the SMART information from them.
To make long story short, SMART is a monitoring technology that allows you to monitor the status of your hard drives. Most old HDD's break down with time, so it becomes very important to know whether yours are on their way to scrap heap or not. More on SMART here.

WARNING: I advise against using "Low-Level Format" option present on some motherboards. This can destroy or damage the HDD.


Mice: About any COM or PS/2 mouse will do for DOS usage. For Windows, my personal bias go to A4Tech 4D+ and 4D++. Both are three-button two-wheel mice for PS/2 that operate nicely with a COM adapter (often bundled).


Cache: In the past, motherboards had removeable/upgradeable L2 cache. Older x86 boards had a number of sockets with cache chips (looks similar to the BIOS chip, cept it's smaller and there are several of them in close proximity), most Pentium boards have their cache memory integrated onboard and usually sport a cache expansion module slot (similar in appearance to a PCI slot, but placed away from the expansion card slots). 256K cache will do (128 also should), but I advise you try to find means of expanding to 512K or 1024K, because it can result in a significant performance boost.


For OS, there are following choices:
DOS:
* MS-DOS 6.22 : Last "true" MS-DOS system. Not compatibile with FAT-32.
* MS-DOS 7.1 : A version of DOS someone hacked from Windows 98. FAT-32 compatibile.
* FreeDOS : Freeware DOS system, FAT-32 compatibile.
In theory some versions of DOS can be forced to cope with USB devices like memory sticks. (there should be more about that in that oldschool computing site I posted about in the "Vintage Computing" sticky).

Generally, DOS alone isn't the best idea. A second OS is advisable, either Windows or some sort of Linux. This is because there are better and more up to date programs for file management, archive operation and hardware monitoring available for later systems then for DOS.

Windows:
Windows 3.x is pretty much useless, with barely any advantage over DOS with a proper GUI. Windows 95 is advised for high-end 486's and low-end Pentiums. Windows 98 is advised for most Pentiums over 100 Mhz with sufficient RAM, altough it may lag a bit.
* Windows 95 OSR 1: Earliest Windows 95 version. Not FAT-32 compatibile.
* Windows 95 OSR 2: Later Win95 upgrade. FAT-32 compatibile.
* Windows 95 OSR 2.5: Last Win95 version to exist. My sources differ as to whether this is an original Microsoft product or one modified by some hacker. Similarily, they differ as to whether it is compatibile with USB memory devices or not.
Note: Windows 98 just won't work on 486 architecture systems.
* Windows 98: FAT-32 compatibile, compatibile with any USB devices if proper drivers are installed (manual driver installation required for each USB device)

Linux:
Don't know that much about Linux OS'es, so I can't tell you much about them.
* Damn Small Linux: Bootable CD or bootable floppy that starts the CD (in case your machine is not compatibile with some types of bootable CD's; can happen, had that myself). Can install on your hard drive or run off a ramdisk (portion of your RAM reserved by the program and turned into a virtual hard drive) if you have 128 MB or more. Not sure how much system resources it needs to operate with full GUI, the basic command line should work smoothly even on a 486.


I'll type in some more on suggested software later.

The Dual Boot section should be renamed to "Running multiple systems on single computer" (and for a reason), with two sub-sections: "Boot Managers" and "Hardware-based methods". I can provide pretty much the entire content for the latter (which can be done easier then setting up a multi-boot system, though not as neat and clean in the end result).


Also, I think that the guide could later use a section on "Methods of transferring data to and from the DOS machine". There are many things that can be said about that, and some interesting points for less tech-savy users.

[Grinder]

Thanks a lot for the long post, I will get to work on transferring it to the guide.

EDIT - I am in the middle of editing my doc, and horseman, I have included some large chunks of the information you posted, it proved to be very helpful! On my to-do list is among others finding out about low-resource Linux OSs and molesting the "FreeDOS for gamers" page.

EDIT 2 - I have updated the first post with an outline for the guide, including the requested changes. Please comment/complain/make suggestions!

[Tulac]

A question about 1.3 "Pentium architecture requires that
RAM is available in matching pairs."
Does that mean that you have to have 16++16 or 8+8 etc. MB RAM? Because I'm absolutely positive my old pentium 133 mhz had 48MB RAM (16+32) and the PC registered all of the ram on the boot.
Oh and on other applications I would add Norton Commander, ARJ and PKZIP as somewhat of essentials, if you don't have windows running on the machine.

[gregor]

there is a chance had 8+8 and 16+16 in you computer. i dont' know about early pentiums, but 486 definatelly needed pairs. i had 4+4 at firts but then i expanded to 16+16. for that i needed to remove the 8+8 cause the other slots i had were not for 72pin (i think it was 72) ram.

[velik_m]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Jan 4 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]273261[/snapback]</div>

* Windows 95 OSR 1: Earliest Windows 95 version. Not FAT-32 compatibile.
* Windows 95 OSR 2: Later Win95 upgrade. FAT-32 compatibile.
* Windows 95 OSR 2.5: Last Win95 version to exist. My sources differ as to whether this is an original Microsoft product or one modified by some hacker. Similarily, they differ as to whether it is compatibile with USB memory devices or not.
[/b]

Acording to wikipedia OSR2.5 is official, note: OSR means OEM Service Release - this were meant just for new computer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_95#Editions

[Grinder]

Okay lots of changes, I'm still updating.
For anyone who is interested, I have begun setting up a wikispace!
it is located at ultimatedospc.wikispaces.com and is still in the making. If you would like to contribute, PM me you e-Mail address and I'll invite you right away. Again, thanks for helping!

[The Fifth Horseman]

Does that mean that you have to have 16++16 or 8+8 etc. MB RAM? Because I'm absolutely positive my old pentium 133 mhz had 48MB RAM (16+32) and the PC registered all of the ram on the boot.[/b]

Nope. That does not mean that all RAM haas to be paired.
When talking about SIMM (and compatibile EDO) modules, most typical motherboards have four slots, divided in two banks. Note: That can differ, here in front of me I've got a Socket-3 motherboard with 4x30-pin SIMM and 2x72-pin SIMM slots where the 30-pin slots are all a single bank (and thus need four identical modules) and each 72-pin slot counts as two banks, as well as a Socket-5 one with 6x72-pin slots which are grouped in three separate banks.
What I am trying to tell you is that in Pentium architecture, the modules in each bank must be paired - so if you have an 8-meg module in SIMM-1, an identical must follow in SIMM-2 and if you have a 4-meg module in SIMM-3 an identical must follow in SIMM-4.

486 definatelly needed pairs. i had 4+4 at firts but then i expanded to 16+16. for that i needed to remove the 8+8 cause the other slots i had were not for 72pin (i think it was 72) ram.[/b]

Nope, not exactly. As far as my memory goes (combining with info from the manual for my 486 motherboard), the principle about pairing memory in each bank was similar but not identical to that in the Pentium boards.
If first slot of the bank had a module, you didn't have to install one in the second slot of that bank. If, however, you installed one it had to be matching the first one. At least that's how I remember it. I've got the manual for my HOT-433 somwhere around, will see if my memory is right.

Also, the other RAM slots you had were most likely for 30-pin SIMM modules.


Velik: Thanks for clarifying that.


Henning, for the guide:


If motherboard manual is not available, check if the motherboard ID is printed somwhere on it. If it is, put it into Google and more often then not you'll find yourself with at least some of its specs.
If the ID is not printed anywhere, check the markings on the BIOS and chipset and try searching for information on these. This alternative is more time-consuming, but usually gives positive results.
Another alternative (for Windows 9x machines only) is installing EVEREST, as it can identify a huge variety of motherboards and expansion cards.


In several places you've typed in "468" instead of 486.

Equivalent to Pentium 90, runs things meant for Pentium 133 better without any notable slowdowns.[/b]

More accurate would be "Approximately equivalent to Pentium 90, can usually run programs with CPU specification for Pentiums up to 133 without major slowdowns".

The main differences between 486 and 586 processor architecture is implementation of superscalar architecture (which allows 586 to complete more then one operation per clock cycle) and 64-bit data path (which doubles the amount of data that can be accepted from the machine's memory).

Bottom line is:
Programs which were meant for 486 architecture will not experience any particularly significant performance boost when ran on 586 systems.
Early 586 software will function on 486, but slowdowns may occur during intense memory operations and the overall performance will not be as high as on a genuine 586 system.
Later 586 software may refuse to operate on 486 machines altogether.


You should also inform the reader of Pentium Overdrive CPU's (in-depth explanation on Wikipedia). In theory it was supposed to give 486-base systems Pentium efficiency; in practice, it was a failure.
AMD 5x86 and Cyrix 5x86 were produced with the same purpose in mind, and apparently turned out better for the purpose.


My general suggestion is that instead of the current division of the Processor section, you take it like that:
1.2.1 486 architecture (Socket 1-3)
1.2.2 Pentium Overdrive and equivalents (Socket 2-3)
1.2.3 586 architecture (Socket 4 and above)


RAM: EDO modules (there are versions for both SIMM and DIMM slots) are the best option for building a DOS gaming rig. These modules can - depending on circumstances - be up to 40% faster then normal SIMM modules. On Front System Bus speeds below 80 mhz, they beat DIMM modules as well, and even with a 100 mhz FSB the difference between EDO and DIMM modules is minimal.


Sound Card: If you are looking for a genuine Sound Blaster, make sure it's a PRO version. Sound Blaster Pro / Sound Blaster Pro 2 support stereo sound, unlike Sound Blaster / Sound Blaster 2 which do not.
LAPC-I is the best option specifically for MIDI music. It is however apparently very rare, and trying to find one for sale may be very problematic.


Hard Drives:

Note: DOS does not cope well with partitions or drives larger than 1GB. Try and stay below that mark.[/b]

That's simply not true.
What would be correct:

Most versions of DOS are incompatibile with FAT-32 filesystem. This means that they will not be able to access FAT-32 formatted drives.
FAT-16 filesystem can in theory support partition sizes up to 2 GiB (gibibytes; 2^30 bytes; one gibigyte is slightly less then one gigabyte) but it is advisable to avoid its usage on partitions over 400 MB because it's limited cluster count will result in large clusters and that in turn in gross waste of space. (clusters and "slack space" explained on Wikipedia)[/b]

Keyboard: Any AT-standard keyboard will do.


Applications: I agree with Tulac, Norton Commander (or any of its multiple clones) is a MUST on any DOS system. It makes things much easier.
If for some reason you need to take screenshots under DOS, there is an old DOS-based version of Screen Thief. Freeware, don't remember exact version no (will look it up, promise).

For those who use Windows, EVEREST (free download from www.lavalys.com) is a useful hardware recognition tool. It can also read SMART data from your hard drives.
WinImage is another Windows utility. Short and to the point, it can create images of floppy disks and store them on your HDD. Naturally, it can also be used to record said images onto new floppies. This is a good way to preserve things like driver disks for old hardware.


I suggest you add a section on "useful references". Wikipedia is often a useful source of data, http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/ is my personal top pick for retro computing resources.

[Grinder]

I am almost through with updating the wiki, made the corrections you asked, now it's just about tweaking. About that references section - I was planning on giving some praise to the sources I used in the sources section and then making another page for the useful sources and if we say something about drivers, we can always link to that page. maybe make it some kind of "treasure chest" in terms of old drivers/software.

[Tulac]

Well why not put this article (when it's finished) here on abandonia? I mean it is site related.