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Old 20-01-2008, 09:25 PM   #221
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They're all pretty average in my opinion, they're not really the most indepth games (none of them are indepth in fact) and they're repetitive and have extremely generic environments, lore, and characters.
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Old 20-01-2008, 09:40 PM   #222
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You can't call the Telvanni part of Morrowind generic, actually the whole architecture in morrowind is amazingly done, one of most beautiful and versatile I saw in any of the games.
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Old 20-01-2008, 09:48 PM   #223
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BP, you don't have much in-depth familiarity with the series, do you?

Only the somewhat shallow gameplay, somewhat repetative nature (like most RPG's) and large number of cookie-cutter NPC's are valid points in general. Although admittedly Arena and Daggerfall also had somewhat bland environments, which OB shouldn't have had, but did :notrust:
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Old 21-01-2008, 03:32 AM   #224
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They aren't very indepth. The character system is slanted towards combat, and even Daggerfall's absolutely massive amount of skills and content is merely scattered around, it's all on the surface, there's very little beyond creating a character that can hit things with extreme speed and is equipped with long weapons.

The customization is there, but it's rather pointless when you can just pump up your character to a ridiculous level.
The TES games are as much action RPGs as the Diablo series is. There's not much to it.

@Tulac - I don't consider an encyclopedic amount of information presented in text to be "in-depth", nor do I believe architecture has anything to do with it. Actually, as far as it goes, nothing much about Morrowind's culture was present at all in the game, mostly the only vibe you got was some funny insults and the general feeling that all the natives were total assholes.
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Old 21-01-2008, 09:27 AM   #225
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have you read the books?

well interaction in the game is via text not voice... it's more like a text adventure with nice graphical elements. it's as deep as you want it to be. sure it does have some annoying things like making yourself godlike with potions, combat system....

i guess it would be a lot better if it had combat system similar to the one found in Mount & blade. based more on skillz than stats. but sooner or later you hit the stats which are a component from RPG ever since D&D. it's just that in morrowind and such the computer does the rolling.

main issue with morrowind is that you quite quickly become too powerfull for the creatutes and opponents lurking about. however the added two expansions with tougher enemies just for that reason.
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Old 21-01-2008, 10:26 PM   #226
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What I meant is that the "culture" is only ever presented through text or descriptions, none of the characters actually behave in certain ways.

A good example of it was done well was the Sect Camp in Gothic 1, you couldn't speak to any of the Baals without permission, and in the Old Camp you were pretty much alone if you pissed off the guards, it really presented each camp in a different manner and their customs and manners stuck out through their actions and reactions to you.

Morrowind seemed more like everyone had a dirt dry reaction to everything you did, nothing was really motivated by their culture or etc.
So it felt extremely generic to me.
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Old 22-01-2008, 06:57 AM   #227
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well morrowind does have the disposition... but indeed cultures are not really that problematic... you can easilly still speak with Hlallu house members even after you murder a few of theirs...
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Lifts-Her-Tail: But it is huge! It could take me all night!
Crantius Colto: Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time.
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Old 22-01-2008, 03:18 PM   #228
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It's highly moddable, though. This means you can run a mod that turns vanilla NPCs into people who have more personality, and even additional quests. There's a series of those for different cities called LGNPC (Less Generic NPCs), which you can find here.

Going back to a previous subject, here are other mods I've used and enjoyed:

Super Adventurers 3.02. Adds plenty of tweaks to the game, generally making it somewhat harder (but in a few cases, easier). It's meant to rebalance things more sensibly.

Amulets and Rings. Adds all sorts to the game, both in shops and as swag.

The Cloak Collection. Adds a ton of cloaks to the game. As I recall, some involve quests.

Cult of the Clouds. New faction, items, guild hall, dungeon, NPCs, creatures, books, quests. Located on Dagon Fel.

Dracandos' Voice. When you get to the top of a guild or faction, this mod gives you some neat new abilities. For example, you can send any member of House Telvanni on a mission as Archmagister, while you can practice combat with any Imperial Legion soldier or guard as Knight of the Imperial Dragon. Really great stuff.

Fair Magicka Regeneration. Four scripts; you choose one to set the speed at which magicka regens. Note, it affects your opponents as well as you. The nice thing is that you don't have to guzzle endless potions or sleep to regain magicka.

Sri's Alchemy. Adds new alchemical substances, and removes Fortify Intelligence from the game.

Tarmar. Uriel Septum's favorite resort, the location of a mystery. Not much hack and slash, this is a very good RPG yarn.

Haldenshore. So many mods are located in or near Seyda Neen that crashes and conflicts are common. My preferred mod for that area is this new town to the south, which adds a thieves guild that you help establish. There are 16 thieves' quests, and a nice idea: you get a cut of the guild profits. So the more quests you accomplish, the more you benefit the guild, and the more money you acquire on a regular basis. Also includes a loanshark, betting on fist fights, and an underground bar.

Havish. By the same modder as Haldenshore. This is a major city, on a landmass west of Vvardenfell. Once again, a new thieves guild with 20 quests, but also 8 quests for a fighters' guild, and 8 for a mages' guild. Has a banking system, and gambling--you can play blackjack, and bet on rat fights.

Herbalism Lite. Another ease-of-use mod. Instead of having to open every plant you come accross and extract its contents, this mod makes the process automatic. Click on the plant, and its contents are moved to your inventory. If nothing's in the plant, you'll be told so.

The Muck Shovel of Vivec. A professionally done quest with a side dish of humor--something you seldom see in Morrowind mods.

Erenguard Mines. A strategy add-on: you can buy the services of miners, guards, stock up on food, drink, picks, etc, and need to find the right balance to keep everyone happy and everything profitable. Nicely done.

Enchanted Icon Selection. One of those tiny ease-of-use mods I love. This one gets rid of the horrible enchantment icons that cover whatever you're looking at, and replace 'em with a selection of very easy to see symbols that only affect a small portion of the icon surface. I use the gold star one, but it's up to you.

Dodge. If you're playing a pure mage, get this. It adds a dodge bonus based on your unarmored skill, effectively making unarmored a reasonable choice instead of a deathwish.

Windows Glow. Adds a light source to external windows, making them glow at night. There are a range of colors to choose from. Really nice effect.

Journal Enhanced. Move a quill across yourself, and it brings up a box that lets you add journal entries. You can't affect anything written in the journal by the game, but it's a nice add-on.

Writing Enhanced. Buy a special book or scroll, move it across yourself, and you can actually create a new book/scroll in the game, complete with title. You can go back at anytime and pick up where you left off, and re-write the entire thing, and you can export copy to a textfile.

Potted Plants 2.0. Many plants to choose from. You get a customized pot, and the plant produces an herbal ingredient in 11 days, and every 30 days, after that. Available for purchase from Ancola's stall in Sadrith Mora.

Real Furniture. Creates a merchant in Vivec that sells 400+ pieces of furniture and housing decoration, with many different styles. Objects can be turned, lowered or raised once put in place thanks to a special (very cheap) ring you get at the store. Once the object is set as you'd like it, take off the ring.

Disturb the Dead. Adds decent loot to tombs, but at a cost: the dead are aware of your pillaging. You'll be attacked frequently, and cursed, lowering your attributes until you purchase special potions at a temple. Makes tomb looting more of a challenge, and will eventually be merged with another project by the same modder to add an additional 4-5 levels beneath each tomb, complete with 20+ level undead monsters.

Pack Animal Merchant. By Baratheon79, one of the best coders for this kind of thing. It adds a merchant on the outskirts of Pelagiad who will sell you pack rats and guars.

Lights 300, v. 4.1. By Byblos. Gives every candle light the same color as the candle wax; so red candles produce a red light, etc. You might need to tweak your ini settings to take advantage of this one, but it really creates some nice effects, especially in alchemists' shops.

Psorticon. Gives each type of scroll and potion you acquire it's own color and symbol, making it far easier to identify at a glance.

The Imperial Legion Badge. Tired of having to put on all that armor you receive as a reward every time you go to an Imperial Legion officer for a new quest? This badge gives you instant recognition without all the useless metal.

Morrowind Advanced. Makes the game more challenging: a few new dungeons, with new weapons, armor, alchemical ingredients, and more difficult creatures. Feel like taking on a Rogue Ash Ghoul, a Red Warrior Dragon, or an Elite Dremora General? Here's your chance, punk. It's all done with leveled lists, so you won't get stomped on by a Winged Twilight Hunter while level 3. Very nicely implemented.

Daggerfall Book Collection. Simply adds 46 volumes that were in Daggerfall, and not in Morrowind. They'll filter into the various bookseller's supplies over time, and you can find them among miscellaneous loot.

Dave Humphrey's Furniture Store 1.6. Adds 250 furniture items you can buy, place, and move (along several axes) in your home. Located in Balmora, but creates a new storefront near the Temple; so very little likelihood of conflicts. One story includes furniture and accessories (wall-mounted torches, wall-hangings, etc) while the other has planters and plants of many sorts. Very nice.

Improved Staffs 1.2. Work-in-progress, but interesting. Intended for the pure mage, it increases the amount of enchanting charge a staff can hold to make it a preferred weapon. Still requires actual striking, though.

MW Visual Pack. In two pieces, one for urban areas, one for nature. (Sometimes called KP MW Visual Pack.) Replaces Morrowind default textures with ones that look more detailed. Also uses more processing power.

Book Rotate. Allows you to drop a book flat or standing up, on a surface. Recognizes when books are near one another, and aligns them. )(Also supports closing most open books.) Finally, you can store books on bookshelves properly.

Knights of Tamriel. A series of mods, each of which adds a complete set of really great-looking armor to the game, along with an attractive structure and a simple, straight-forward (but sometimes battle-heavy) quest. Great looking stuff.

Magical Trinkets of Tamriel 3.0 (MTT 3). MTT2 was among my favorite mods; this is a new upgrade to it. Basically, it increases (very carefully) the kinds of magical devices you'll discover in chets and lying around Vvardenfell, adding to leveled lists. There are several books that describe what to expect; such as Contingencies (somewhat like the contingency spells in BG2), Artifacts (which may require regular sacrifices, of increasing value, to achieve expected results), and Threads (which tap into the plane of Magicka to regenerate the stuff, at the cost of relinquishing use of a kind of armor and/or weaponry). There are many, many more types of magical devices to be found.
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