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Old 20-03-2011, 11:33 AM   #11
DarthHelmet86
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^What TA said.
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Old 20-03-2011, 12:31 PM   #12
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Seconding the mention of Syberia - the art design in that is a complete love letter to the Belle Epoque right through to Art Deco. And of course, the story is pretty cool too.
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Old 20-03-2011, 05:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalAnarchy View Post
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What can I say, as a mere mortal I am trying to judge only how it appeals to me, not how I would define art. I think you are over analyzing it, trying to rationalize and measuring everything in levels of creativity. In the end, it's just my personal perception of atmospheric involvement and awe. Sorry, a 100 stories building may take a lot of effort but, depending on how it was designed, it can feel as bland and uninspired as many modern games. Technical achievements have great value to technicians, but not necessarily to the layman (maybe some practical value, but that's not the case for games).

No one would be silly enough to claim a team of 100 people didn't put some level of dedication in a product. But you can safely say not all things mankind build are truly inspired, in fact a very small share of them are. Like I said before, a techincal focused product is different. They are creative? Definetly, but that doesn't translate automatically into the feeling of wonder for the players.

All of this brings me back to my original point. Talented writers, drawers, among others, don't seem to be much present in game industry any longer, which is a shame.

In the end, we seem to differ in what we consider art. Since I am against trying to rationalize much these subjectives concepts, I will simply refer to it as awe inspiring and atmospheric engagement (like I said, I am simply a mortal and can only judge from my own perspective). I have read the article, and I will repeat what I posted earlier: art for art's sake is pointless and will lose all of it's intended value.

Finally, an addendum: I don't understand why you consider any contribution to a game as art but can't see Monkey Island's well-crafted game as such (and I have never said anyting about "ultimate").
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Old 21-03-2011, 09:21 AM   #14
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All of this brings me back to my original point. Talented writers, drawers, among others, don't seem to be much present in game industry any longer, which is a shame.
Creativity, freedom of being innovative and sheduled releases/dev time restrictions don't go swell together.
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Finally, an addendum: I don't understand why you consider any contribution to a game as art but can't see Monkey Island's well-crafted game as such (and I have never said anyting about "ultimate").
My opinion towards MI is the same as towards other games. I was just trying to figure out what old games you consider superior in what you're trying to experience, and I saw you mention MI, that's all.

Maybe if you mention what exactly you're looking for so we all can come up with suggestions. From the adventures that impressed me with their atmospheric feeling I can mention Beneath a Steel Sky, the first two Broken Swords, The Whispered World, the first Gabriel Knight, Dreamfall and most likely the first Longest Journey (which I haven't played yet), the Shenmue games, Indigo Prophecy, Lost Crown: A Ghost-Hunting Adventure, and Syberia which was already mentioned; I would also mention Perry Rhodan: The Immortals of Terra, Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened and Dark Earth, but these more like resonate with my own preferences.

Now games that really like to deviate from the standard formula aka "games that kick you in the balls": American McGee's productions (especially Alice; Grimm and Scrapland maybe, but stay away from Bad Day LA), XIII (daring art in an FPS), Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth (one of the few survival horror in First-Person perspective, the others are Penumbra and Amnesia), Enclave, Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines, Jade Empire (for getting the chinese theme right), Mark Ecko's Getting Up, different japanese survival horrors except RE of course; I can add the Thief games, Overclocked: A History of Violence, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, the Max Payne games, the Suffering games and Zanzarah, but that may be overstretching.

Now good storylines are harder. I don't remember having experienced a game that left me totally in awe because of its storyline (well I can say the same for movies and animes with a few exceptions). I really liked the stories behind the Longest Journey universe, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, Beneath a Steel Sky, Gabriel Knight, lotsa epic CRPGs, Silent Hills, Indigo Prophecy, but also simpler "save the prince(ss)" plots like Tribes: Vengeance, or "my life just went down the drains" ones like in The Suffering or Max Payne. I'm also a sucker for sci-fi but I will not mention those.

Also some of the most atmospheric experiences are in FPP, such as SWAT 4, STALKER, games made with the Source engine.

Besides all of these, there lots of titles that I haven't played (yet) and I have no idea about. I hope I helped you improve your opinion about modern games.
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Old 21-03-2011, 04:03 PM   #16
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Nice list, I see a few I haven't tried, I will check them later. I am playing Machinarium now, and that's more like what I wanted. So, there's hope after all.
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Old 21-03-2011, 04:21 PM   #17
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YAY!
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:36 PM   #18
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Have anyone of you played Nocturne? It's one of the best games I've played, not only for being survival horror, but it's the closest I've come to immersing in a 30's noir atmosphere. Its 3d engine was way ahead of its time (1999!), which meant that it demanded high specs, but made the experience possible. If you ask me, Nocturne aged very well even up to now.

I have plans to make some random freeware game on a when-it's-done basis, so I've questioned this "artistic value" in games for months. I see that it tends to boil down to a matter of choosing form or function, or both. Atmosphere/experience can be a cooperation of both sides; getting into the game would require just the right interface/controls, the right visuals, and the proper contexts for both to appear in.

I'm even looking at how artistic fighting games can be esthetically, without having to strobe some ridiculous screen-sized hitsparks from a menial punch. Then there's cases like Tekken/Virtua Fighter/Dead or Alive, which I find balancing depth and craziness--dedicating oneself to a character plus nuances of game engine is almost like studying a martial art (50+ moves per char on avg), but it's also fun as hell to bounce opponents in the air with combos. Plotwise, they tend to be typical martial arts movies, but Tekken is a serious offender with sheer randomness.

These days I'm in it for the gameplay, whether it's fun AND will keep me playing it for days on end. Modern games still manage to accomplish (or seek to...) a distinct visual and gameplay experience from the mainstream though; a lot of what I'd love to get my hands on, like Shadow of the Colossus, Alex Wake, Child of Eden, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, (latter two are future releases) hopefully give more ideas of what to look out for. My 2 cents.
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