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[Stroggy]

I could write about the region... but the thread is about the country.
So I do limit myself to the Belgian state since its independence.

Before that it was always part of some other empire/country, be it the UKN (United Kingdom of the Netherlands) or the Spanish empire.
If I would write about the region of those days I could drone on and on about the great artists during the gloryage of Antwerp till the closing of the Scheld by Alexander Fern?ce... but I wouldn't be brief then, would I?

I could also talk about the gloryage of Brugge till it became impossible for ships to reach. or about Gent.

But I'd still be talking about cities then.

[Kon-Tiki]

Still, concidering its history to start when the country was an individual country is just plain shallow. It's got its reasons to become one. It's not like somebody just said: From now on, let's have this as a country. It goes back to Napoleon, if not even further.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Stroggy+Dec 4 2004, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stroggy @ Dec 4 2004, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I refrain from discussing this with you since there is no way to engage in a civilized conversation with you.[/b]

I'm not that civilized, and can't call you all that names that you call me. :blink:

Originally posted by Stroggy@Dec 4 2004, 04:29 PM
Any debate would lead to you twisting my words or not even listening.

You did not say single true thing and except me to take your words for granted?? That's not what's called discusion. Didn't you learn already that people don't have to agree to have a conversation? :not_ok:


<!--QuoteBegin-Stroggy@Dec 4 2004, 04:29 PM
If you continue to go off topic I shall request an administator to delete the off topic post.[/quote]
Let's not talk about on going masacre, it's not nice if people find out what's really going on. :blink:

This is not off topic, as it's about your country. It's bloody, and not nice, but still it's your country and you are holding your nick on it's flag in sing area. If something should be deleted, it's that bloody flag! :not_ok:

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Anubis@Dec 4 2004, 11:12 PM
You guys are hated in region, and NO WITHOUT A GOOD REASON.

Anubis - although I do not have a pro-Israel point of view, I will just say this from a pure and simple civilazed way!
Hatered NEVER has a good reason. Such generalizations - hating these guy, hating those guys...
You off all people should know to what this could lead. You said yourself what has happened to you during the war in Bosnia.
Who hated whom? Were the reasons good? DOESN'T MATTER! There are just some things that should not continue. Retaliation is never a good option, because the vicious circle will just keep going on and on and on...
Lat's say there would be an accident and someone killed my brother - I would not believe it was an accident so I kill his two sisters, he kills my parents, I kill his three uncles,... We both have kids, they all have kids... Our grandchildren will be hating and killing each other because we could not resolve the issue like civilized people. It's only worse with nation...

EDIT:
And about that 'bloody' flag!!!
It's easy to say that you should be burned for heracy because you worship an old Egyptian diety. A god of the underworld as well. If you have a problem with some place/sountry/nation (like in this case obviously Israel) that's your problem. Don't take it out on people!
And yes, this coversation is getting personal, offencive, and uncivilized.
True people don't have to agree to have a conversation, but to really talk, you must not simply jump at every word somebody says to prove them wrong, but you must listen to the point. If you don't understand it then there's no way you can have a discussion! So Anubis, as much as I like your sence of humor, you are walking on thin ice here!

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by Kon-Tiki@Dec 4 2004, 09:39 PM
Still, concidering its history to start when the country was an individual country is just plain shallow. It's got its reasons to become one. It's not like somebody just said: From now on, let's have this as a country. It goes back to Napoleon, if not even further.

Napoleon was a reason of the creation of Belgium... but not really direct.

The creation of Belgium is exactly like that "we're fed up with Willem I" its the rise in Nationalism.
The Great Alliance formed during the Congress of Vienna didn't stop it because:
a) Prussia had its hands full with the uprising in Poland
B) England saw a big opponent weaken (namely the dutch)

I agree that the fact we're being limited to just talking about the country is shallow but thats the thread.

[Stroggy]

Anubis, if something should be deleted its your post. Quit trying to go off topic by evoking discussions.

[Rogue]

Sebatianos,
Read your post again.

Who hated whom? Were the reasons good? DOESN'T MATTER! There are just some things that should not continue.

It's on going for 56 years in Israel, and it does not look it will slow down, at list not till there is any Palestinian left.

Just imagine how many sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, parents... were killed in this long running genocide, and think what can make one 18 year old kid make such thing, as killing him self in a bomb attack.

I do not support terrorist attacks (and never will, no matter what reasons might lay behind it), and only what I like to point with top line is that something is terribly wrong, we all know about it, but we do not like to discuss about it, as people like Stroggy might get offended?

Puck that...

[Sebatianos]

Look - I can understand a terrorist. Terrorism is the only course of action someone can have sometimes (basically the freedom fighters during the WW2 in ocupied Europe were mostly terrorist - from the legal point and moral point of view).
I know there is something terably wrong in the middle east and I am (as I said before) not pro-Israel. That does not however automaticaly make me pro-Palestinian.
The problems of the region are many.
I have no problem talking about it and I know Stroggy hasn't one either, but what you're doing isn't talking.
Your accusing!
You are offended by the fact that the things are the way they are now, so you are looking at the entire thing only one sidedly. That's the problem here.
If we were at a bar talking about this over a few drinks the situation would be much different...
Talk is the only constructive solution out of that situation - but not like this and not here.

The only reason I even responede to that is this:
- You said that it looks like there won't be peace until there's a singel Palestenian alive in thet region. ARE YOU CRAZY? If that would really be the solution for Israel (and their 'big brother' America) trust me - they have the capability to comit the genocide... They do have the weapons and technology necessary to kill every single Palestinian... So trust me - that's not it.
Looking for a fair resolve of that conflict is impossible! One side will always feel like there has been something lost. So a compromise is needed and the only way to have one is by talking - NOT ACCUSING!!!

[Rogue]

Accusing?

Let's check the whole topic (and others if you wish):

Stroggy:
Wish I could, but some people get pissed when i just drop the name 'israel'

Me:
As far as Israel goes, it would be nice to see how much correct it would be. Last time we talked about it, we could not agree on some basic things.

Stroggy:
The difference between him and you: he had a clue what he was talking about.

Sorry, but I won't be fooled again. If anybody is serious about the hearing the history of Israel they can PM me.



So History of Israel should be only revealed trough PM, where stroggy have a chance to 'sell' his point of view.

That's not accusing, that's the fact.

Some post are fixed... Interesting...

[Stroggy]

I only wish to discuss it in private so you wouldn't interupt with your accusations of me being a murderer.

Now look what you did, you got this entire thread off topic.