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Old 27-03-2006, 11:45 AM   #1
Rogue
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In couple of treads I could not to notice new games bashing. I understand that this is some kind of retro-web site (and me being retro-gamer ), but what I don’t understand is missing of appreciation of innovations and games evolutions.

I recently replayed two Nintendo classics, Megaman and Castlevania and both games were nice to play, but way to hard to complete. In better words, it is almost impossible to finish games without cheating.

When you compare that with latest release from the two serials (GBA games), innovations are great, new elements in both games made them more playable and enjoyable. (In Castlevania – Circle of the Moon I had to cheat last boss, as it was very hard to finish without collecting the entire card collection trough the game)

Same goes for the games that moved from 2D to 3D. As an example: Metal Gear. Original was very hard and challenging (that might be a better word) but Metal Gear Solid was more fun and still there was plenty of challenges in the game.

And back to Nintendo only games. Metroid was nice platformer when it first came out, but same you can say for SNES and GC versions of the game. Moving from 2D to 3D FPS was great.

This is just couple of the games, on different consoles. I might continue for hours to compare old and new, but without accepting progress I don’t believe you appreciate games enough.
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Old 27-03-2006, 02:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anubis@Mar 27 2006, 01:45 PM
In couple of treads I could not to notice new games bashing.
you couldn't notice them? you're not looking hard enough.

jokes aside there are several factors:
1) the first one that comes to mind is that as mentioned above weŗe a "retro" site.
2) most of the vistors "... are either broke or won't admit they're not"
3. donw to more concrete cliams:
3.1 Innovations: I belive we do appreciate that, as long as they are actualy new.
3.2 cheating: what? you had to cheat in megaman, pardon me but you suck.let me rephrase that better: the games are actualy getting harder not easier, so why would you need to cheat in old ones?
3.3 2d to 3d. I can imgine people would bash stuff that lost some of it's charm by going from pretty 2d renders to crappy 3d. but we haven't had that problem for almost 5 years. as for MGS, does anyone really bash it for that? :blink: I think 3d serves it quite nicely.
3.4. genre changeing. just that- it's of a different genre.
4. we appreciate progress. :angel:
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Old 27-03-2006, 02:36 PM   #3
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Well, I put that sentence wrong, but you did get the whole idea.

Why to cheat on Megaman? Because controls have been bad witht hat game made in 1987. (almost 20 years old ) I did not like idea of spending days in playing it, and wanted to finish it.

Games are not getting harder in my opinion, just more time consuming, which is a good thing. Mini games seems to be today's trend. (GTA: SA, some of GBA games etc.)

But still if you just check couple of topics in this section, you'll see that people are complaining about things such as 3d games, complexity etc.
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Old 27-03-2006, 02:45 PM   #4
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newer games are not getting harder, they are getting easier.. and much easier
i liked more addictive style of older games
and i dont niether think that newer games are more time consuming
(except online games and maybe gta)

i think that most of new games are more like "minigames" and way easier

oh and.. cheating suc -throws tomato to anubis-
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Old 28-03-2006, 01:30 AM   #5
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Huh... Cheating in old games like MegaMan and Castlevania? Sorry, but you do suck if you can't do otherwise. :blink:

My main grudge with new games is that they are worse quality gameplay wise than old games. Why do you keep playing old games? You got it, because the gameplay is so great they are just wonderfull to play over and over again even if we beaten the game numerous times. Several great examples spring to my mind, like MOO2, Transport Tycoon, Xcom...

In today new games, once you've got around a game then you're pretty much done. And those games who try to copy the old and tryied gameplay style of the old games do it all wrong... You can't take, for example, Xcom and do a 3D clone of it. It just won't fit, the 2D isometric camera angle is part of the gameplay. A 3D clone of Xcom is a completely different game. And somehow the game creators fail to see this easily understandable point. That's why games like Aftermath suck to the point I don't have words to describe while Xcom remain brilliant and unchallenged by other games.

My second grudge is taking games and expending the serie without following the gameplay. MOO3 is the perfect example... There is so little left of MOO in MOO3, it's not even the same game. Only the name is similar, and it doesn't take Einsteins to understand the reason; it sell better with a popular name stickied on the box.
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Old 28-03-2006, 02:59 AM   #6
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I like both old school and new school equally. It's best to be open to everything. This particular site is for retro gaming though, so most here don't like too many new games... shame, missing out on things like Colossus. Just frequent more forums than this one, you'll get a balance eventually.
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Old 28-03-2006, 03:41 AM   #7
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Meh, they're snobs.
They bash because they think they're "sophisticated" like film fanatics, they think most stuff is crap these days.

The big thing is innovation, people are saying we just don't have it as we used to, that's a big lie, if you play God of War, or the before-mentioned Colossus, you'll find that people had some great ideas, that couldn't have been touched before. Technology is used to immerse, and because of that we can get better experiences from our games, and despite age, today's games are in a word "getting better" because they now the the ability to draw us into their worlds, or at least let us feel adrenaline rush without needing the stress of being massacred by five thousand pixelated robots.
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Old 28-03-2006, 03:52 AM   #8
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I am afraid I have to turn your own argument against you Blood Piggy... For we old school gamers used to do that before, and the same argument could be used just by switching side. Graphics is not a real argument, it's really more a deterrent. The only difference between old school gaming and new school gaming is that us old school use our imagination as our best graphical tool, while the new school gaming have to see something to appreciate it. I find this a pretty annoying concept to tell the truth, especially when gameplay is sacrificied to compensate.

I'm not a "sophisticated" gamer... I'm just a gamer, plain and simple. And I been continuously disapointed by the new games since several years, to the point in which I failed to see the point in even trying to continue to keep up with the industry. This is the reason I prefer old games to new ones, not because I just want to snob my way around.
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Old 28-03-2006, 03:56 AM   #9
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I'm saying people that repulse from new games, those are the snobs.
And it's not only a question of graphics, it's of control, sound, atmosphere, graphics, gameplay mechanics, power, and optical illusion graphics (HDR lighting for example) my point is not whether they're good or not, my point is that now we don't have to leave it to our imaginations, the creators of the games have the creative license they have deserved from the get-go of the industry.
It's understandably more expensive, but it pays off for the player, who'll get to experience the world he's in.
Play Colossus or the newer Zelda games, they're prime examples,
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Old 28-03-2006, 04:33 AM   #10
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EOF,
I don’t have as much time as I used to, so when playing the games, some of them I take shortcuts. So in other words, I cheat, especially if the game includes repetitive game play.
But some games, which I find worth spending more time on I play without cheating. Good examples of this are SuperFrog (replaying this classic – Amiga version) and Lionheart (Amiga also). Second one I finished twice rescently, while first one I am trying (again) to get all passcodes.
Some games did improve with 3D. Such example is metal gear – metal gear solid. Some Nintendo examples of great title improvements include Metroid, F-Zero, Starfox, Castlevania and Super Mario series.
Speaking of game play, I still remember when C64 users had same argument about Amiga game play. And then add to this Atari – Amiga users war.
But back to topic, old games are fine, in many cases short/reparative and monotone, but so new games have their downfalls. But still a lot of new games have great gameplay. For example Crash Bandicot (PS/PS2), Jack and Dexter, Prince of Persia (new titles – God, I hated gameplay of the old ones), Grand Turismo, Beyond Good and Evil... just to name few of them…
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