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Old 10-04-2010, 08:07 PM   #1
nextinline
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Default mourning the loss of the Polish president

for the Polish people here on abandonia, I'm sorry for your country's loss. I have history in Poland
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:00 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by nextinline View Post
I have history in Poland
In that case let me remind what some media outlet may have omitted: we lost two presidents: the second being the last president on exile (Polish government which evacuated from the war-torn Poland to France then Britain never recognised the commie regime, contrary to the governments of other countries), Richard Kaczorowski (WW2 Soviet prisoner, later soldier of the 2nd Polish Corps - does the name Monte Cassino ring the bell?).
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:50 AM   #3
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nope, in fact, that history is is my (now dead) great grandpa and whats this smilie i found? remove the naziness
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS View Post
In that case let me remind what some media outlet may have omitted: we lost two presidents: the second being the last president on exile (Polish government which evacuated from the war-torn Poland to France then Britain never recognised the commie regime, contrary to the governments of other countries), Richard Kaczorowski (WW2 Soviet prisoner, later soldier of the 2nd Polish Corps - does the name Monte Cassino ring the bell?).
We also lost a number of high-ranking government officials and the generals of every branch of army. And then a few more officials and high-ranking politicians.

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remove the naziness
The emote was there for six years. It's a freaking joke. That you don't get it is your problem.
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:29 AM   #5
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It is true that the relations of Poles and Jews in Poland has always been complicated. So it is now. Truth does not need to hide! All of the victims are equally important. Jews or Poles or Croats or Armenians or Kurds ....
My condolences on the loss of so many Poles living!
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:50 PM   #6
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The history of nations is always complicated. One thing for sure, no nation is a saint. But I just wonder, if there are so many rumors about that horrible Jewish fate in Poland, does anyone bring the question why there were so many Jews here in the first place? Say, maybe it's because they fled here fearful of religious persecutions in Western Europe (remember the Spanish Inquisition joke from Monthy Python?) and that Poland (the Commonwealth, to be more precise) was quite tolerant (at least if we compare it to the rest of the world, we never had, say, catholics vs. protestant massacres like in some other rich and developed countries, ahem) as we had laws agains religious oppresions?

Does anyone mention what other country in Europe had Jewish cinema industry making movies in Yiddish? Want to see some bilingual Yiddish-Polish posters? I can dig up a whole movie, too. And this goes only for orthodox Jews who didn't assimilate well. As others were famous artists here directing, writing popular songs etc. and their contribution here in not unlike of what their brethren did in Hollywood. Want me to sing you a few songs written by
Polish Jewish composers? I know many of them by heart.

I'm not saying that they had heaven on earth here. No orthodox ethnic minority sticking to own religion may consider itself "at home" - remember the US backlash against own Muslims after 9/11? But just comparing Poland to what happened in Germany is ridiculously unjust. We had anti-Jewish parties and sentiments and religious bigots like every other country with Jewish minority, but we never had state-run oppression machine like Nazi Germany had. We're portrayed very unfairly. It's either hysterical anti-Polish sentiment or anti-Jewish one. And media only love to throw more fuel to this fire.

Why modern Jews switched from blaming German Nazis to right-wing-extremist Poles, is it a new fad? Suddenly they forgot pogroms in Russia, both tzarist ("Fiddler on the Roof" anyone?) and Soviet? Oh, maybe because Russia still has nukes and gives a damn about accusations from its history as it can freely resort to economic blackmail? "Katyn massacre in 1940? How about we shut down your gas delivery in 2010, Polyatchki?"

Why mister Spielberg didn't care to make a movie about Irena Sendler, who saved approx. 1000 Jewish kids during WW2? And she had no business in that, unlike Schindler who was living off the slave Jewish workforce.
Right now I'm watching a charming movie from 1930s with my fav actress and a handsome Polish Clark Gable-lookalike. That guy was killed by Nazis in Auschwitz for making fake passports for Jews in the getto. Where are you, modern moviemakers?

They love to pick singular cases of Polish violence against Jews during the war. Do they also analyze where may it stem from? Do they show statistics that there was a large influx of Jews in communistic organizations, both pre war and during it (remember that political commisar from "Enemy at the gates"?) ? Jews were flocking to Soviet organizations like NKVD, what usually ended up in Polish families being arrested, shot or "only" deported to Siberia. Nobody mentions Jews sending Poles to death?

So yes, it is complicated.

Last edited by RRS; 11-04-2010 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:25 PM   #7
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I'm not well informed about facts and Polish history, but that sounds very suspicious to me. I'm sorry for all the victims.
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:48 PM   #8
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I have a polish background as well, my grandmother on my dad's side was polish, heck my last name is polish . This is a such a tragedy really, so many people dead at once... and so many important and intellectual people. I wonder if they will ever find people with similar attributes to fill their shoes?
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:48 AM   #9
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The tragedy and loss for the Polish people from this ghastly accident cannot be fully appreciated by those of us living in another country. We can however offer our prayers and our sympathy and we can say "Thank you" for the wonderful contribution Poland and the Polish people have made to our world in the fields of Arts, Music, Films,Politics and as someone who remembers the 2nd world war...resistance in the face of almost overwhelming odds..in fact resistance against the enemy when most other countries had written Poland off..They continued the fight and volunteered in England..Polish pilots were distinguished and very very brave. Polish servicemen when captured continued to be a thorn in the side of the enemy even in the prison camps...No I am not Polish and I have no Polish roots just appreciation for a small but great country..
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:38 AM   #10
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My condolences to all Polish people on Abandonia. It's a great loss, though it can't even compare to the loss the families of all deceased have suffered.

What strikes me odd in the whole situation is that so many important people will fly on the same airplane. I'm sure some countries even have laws (or at least rules) against that.
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