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[yoga]

Originally Posted by twillight

I had technical difficulties and little time to play in the recent days, but I welcome your post, and I tell you where youare:
in the end-area of BG2. It is a pocket-dimension in the Abyss, where you'll be trialed, and fight Irenicus the last time (big-big bossfight coming!). The eyes on the door told this clearly.
Take them as my watchful eyes. Although I'm not Helm But for you, unless you have some backup save, there's no turning back. Hope you stuffed all precious cargo in the Watcher's Keep or at your characters!

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I went a little further in my version, and yet did not immediately encountered the Xan/Montaron quest. Good for me. Went to the Graveyard District, and used a prot. from undead scroll to rob primaly the Crypt King, and it even lasted through all minor crypt in the area. Found a Staff of Curing, although is is not usable despite told class-restrictions which does not apply bards. Whatever.
After the tombs went down, killed spiders, and even got the Spider Figurine! Dealing with the spiders on the way was passable as long as it happened one-on-one (defensive spin needed against sword spiders), and summon monster (II) was used at the gate of the dome, mainly as there spiders don't reside, but appear. Strange was for me to see how much stronger an ethercap was compared to an ogre berserker.
Inside I launched a fireball, ran out, waited for regeneration (fortunate nothing followed), ran back and launched a second fireball after I was sure it'll clear the room. As only low-health mutant spiders are in aside the chief this works good. I wasn't even got hurt by anything but my own fireballs, and that wasn't that harmful at all. On top of the figurine the ioun stone (HP + thaco) and the spells are also nice.

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While Jaheira is called away you have some time to spend alone. This is a good opportunity to do some quests which include none, or minimal fight. For example the Silver Pantaloons is the perfect time (contains an optional fight against weak enemy/s for the boots of avoidance), or Wellyn the ghost child (no fight at all). Dueling Amalas is also a perfect example.
I leave the rest for your imagination, but after you go to sleep you'll have a maximum 2 days window to gain even more exp before a BIG, mostly mage-fight will happen. And while 1 ingame day can contain 2-3 sleeps, any timed group-fight, where streetwalkers limits you, and the difficulty constantly rises should worry some. So before you go to sleep to return Jaheira hop to the Watcher's Keep to buy at least the potion bag!

The slaver compound is a semi-large battle from your possibilities. The biggest problem poses entering it. When you appear IMMEDIATELY go left to avoid igniting the miniboss in the room, and release 2 fireball to weaken the people and hopefully kill the archers and the healer. I used up scrolls as I was out of memorisations and fireball isn't that top-notch anyway. Finally whack until the room empties. Then save, wait until healed (you'll need HP 'cause a big trap) and try to charm (use the nymph cloak from Mae Var's guild) the leader. When succeed run through the corridor into the room filled with slavers with the charmed boss and you yourself stay behind disposing the coming yuan-ti(s). The guy is very strong, will kill a lot of guys before falling.
If needed you can use Nemarra sword's silence ability (at lvl 14 I could identify it myself).
Oh, and against the carrion crawlers in the sewer the Arbane Sword is invaluable preventing Hold Person.

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The hardest part was until now rescuing Haer Dhalis. Going down the sewers is primaly troublesome for the random monster spot at the entrance, but that only prevents you easy access to healing, so prepare to stand around for long long times.
The Raksasha gives a cloak which improves the AC, but it is far from being enough. The only good thing is, Keldorn is slow as f*, so we can kill him and take his stuff.
The mephits, or even the lesser earth elemental aren't real issue at this point, but the Umber Hulk ARE. Even by drinking potions along the fight I was not be able to handle more than one, and even that demanded trial and error (save and reload). Standing at the right position allows you to arrow down 1-2 of them without fight (they are many, so are stuck), and the nearby chest releasing bolt(s) of lightning can do its fair share of harm too, but that's the most advantage you can gather. Then there's nothing else but hoping the best, running away separating them, and even relying on running through the door of the house (which doesn't always work, and leaves a copy of the creature at both sides).
This shows if I'll finally try my luck with the De'Arnise castle, I'll need a potion of invisibility to remove the hulks from the way, and will have to be very-very cautious.

Also, the "infinite money" until being ready to start Act 3 has a limit, and can't eg. buy that nice fire damage dealing axe in the Copper Coronet

In sewers at last!

Terrible battles. But step by step i am ready to meet all of monsters.

Stop. Stop, amigo mio!

But Aerie is my best character for now!

After You every member is good/bad?

..
I will stop now because will go to nearest mountain
to bring nice mountain water to drink.

This water is not chemical threated one!

See You later, aligator.

LOL

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

In sewers at last!

Terrible battles. But step by step i am ready to meet all of monsters.

Stop. Stop, amigo mio!

But Aerie is my best character for now!

After You every member is good/bad?

..
I will stop now because will go to nearest mountain
to bring nice mountain water to drink.

This water is not chemical threated one!

See You later, aligator.

LOL

I rly like your team. It fits you, and is a very good first-time band.

From a more experienced point, spiced with my personal taste here is a full rating of NPCs in BG2-Tob:

- Imoen: she's like Vhalor in Planescape: is away for a long time. As a thief she's also not top-notch, and there are far better mages.
- Minsc: not my taste this dumb-joke theme. Rangers are meh anyway, and his weapon-selection isn't the best either. In pure-BG2 with Lilarcor he was quite a highlight, but that's it.
- Jaheira: I HATE her attitude, she sux as druid (what is a meh class anyway), brings plenty of difficulty with the extra fights she brings in, and I refuse to like Elminster.
- Yoshimo: pretty useful guy, too bad he dies.
- Aerie: as I said her progression is always behind my group. And her attitude is not very inspiring for battle.
- Anomen: he's a pathetic figure. Really. Mediocre fighter, weak healer, and wishy-washy romance. I'd first try m luck with the drow lady as a female than him. Although the story of he romance is quite nice actually.
- Edwin: THE mage for me in the game. He has the stats, and has more spells than the class allows! What's not to like.
- Haer Dhalis: too low intelligence, can't even help with the permabonuses you find. Wisdom lacks too. His stats aren't even good to be a fighter-wannabe. Just no. If he'd be a skald, that'd be ok, but he's a blade His weapon(s) is also a lackluster.
- Jan: he's THE thief in the game, and adequately useful as a mage too. Uses crossbows, what helps again. And his stories are phenomenal. Totally rockstar of BG2.
- Keldorn: a very good party-NPC. The choice of twohanded weaponry is a very convenient one, and his class-kit is again very serving. Give him the gloves of dexterity and he's a good frontliner.
- Korgan: a pretty boring character on the long run, but a massive powerhouse. The choice of axe is good, as that usually not interfere with the rest of the party.
- Nalia: Terrible thief skills, and an average spellcaster. Better take Edwin. If she'd be a thief/fighter that'd be good, but nah. Said thing she isn't for romance.
- Viconia: give her some STR-boosting stuff (Crom Faeyr, hint, hint) and she's a massive frontline fighter. Yes, she's supposed to be a healer, but healer spells are meh anyway. Good support-abilities though those spells, rising her value. She's easily as godly as Edwin or Jan.
- Mazzy: a pretty decent warrior with pretty face. For not-many interactions, alignment reasons, and other minor things she usually not fit for my party, which always makes me a little sad, but yeah, she's as valuable as Korgan.
- Valygar: Uhm, what to say. Katanas suck, spear doubly so. And this is not Icewind Dale, so no backstabbing. Like ever.
- Cernd: Face it, noone likes Cernd. His stats are abysmal, he can't cast spell transformed, and his transformed form is again crap. And he's a druid. Pureclass even. There's a reason people avoid him like plague.

So my 6-pack is: me (whatever I play), Viconia, Edwin, Jan Jansen +2 extra.
Who are surly NOT in my group are: Jaheira, Aerie, Nalya, Imoen, Yoshimo, Anomen, Haer Dhalis, Cernd.

[yoga]

..
So my 6-pack is: me (whatever I play), Viconia, Edwin, Jan Jansen +2 extra.
Who are surly NOT in my group are: Jaheira, Aerie, Nalya, Imoen, Yoshimo, Anomen, Haer Dhalis, Cernd.[/quote]

OK.

I will meet You in some place and show who is the boss!


Kidding of course.
I very carefully read Yr post twice.

Dear twillight, if You create one hero without any
bad chars, i promice to start solo again BG 2 with this one.

Man, i suspect you are one of the creators of the game.

But You know all for everyone!?

How many times You passed the game?

My best result was 12 times for Clouds of Xeen.

Would be so kind show us a battle of Yr char with
10-12 monsters at once, surrounded?

Me? Keine problem.

Q:
Is it true that without holly water i will not
finish my task?
Still i have not such water. I have only mountain water
as told post above.

Q2: Why You, Master, refuse to meet me in competition?

[twillight]

Dear twillight, if You create one hero without any
bad chars, i promice to start solo again BG 2 with this one.

Man, i suspect you are one of the creators of the game.

How many times You passed the game?

My best result was 12 times for Clouds of Xeen.

Q:
Is it true that without holly water i will not
finish my task?
Still i have not such water. I have only mountain water
as told post above.

[/quote]

I wish I'd be a game-developer. That'd mean I'm rich.
BG2 (BG1 not) has a very high replay-value. The many choice of character-combination, the fluent randomness of the battles, the ability-choices, and the lot of time-factors (at least when you have a full party) kicks major in with the interesting quests.

Now let me count:
1) Avenger druid (first playthrough ever, in vanilla BG2)
2) thief/mage (solo)
3) sorcerer
4) fighter/mage (first playthrough with the trilogy)
5-6) barbarian*2 (solo both times)
7) ranger/cleric (solo)
8) priest of Talos
9) monk
10) blade
11) some kind of paladin. I think Cavalier. (solo)
12) wild mage
13) bard (*in progress, solo)
I think that's pretty much it.

Your Q:
I don't remember the need of Holy Water, but I remember any time it gives an advantage, it is there for you in the specific area.
In BG2 you used holy water in Bodhi's Lair to weaken the vampires twice, that's for sure.
In ToB you could buy HW in Saradush (the sieged city, at the hospital-shop), but beats me why. No other ToB-area needs HW.

-------------

On bard:
With Sunfire (man, I totally forgot that spell) I could progress very far actually. The problem is of course memorizing it, which takes time. That's what I dislike in spellcasters, that after launching your best attacks you still have a ton of to-cast which you always struggle to find some use of. How 'bout just find me another bomb to blow up?
Lich in the Wall: this is a pretty weak lich so to say. First activate it, then ASAP leave to the inn and wait 60+ ticks to let most of the contignency-spells expire. Have a MMM. Enter again, and leave again to last out the time stop. Wait 10+ ticks, and re-enter with offensive spin. Kill the lich.

Oh, while in Trademeet kill the local "Lord"-noble after delivering the mantle to the major. Why? For the elven chain, and because you don't loose reputation doing so.

Gave a thought using up some of the accumlated wands and such. Face it, you don't really use them much even with this character. The wand of cloudkill is still good (mostly to prevent casting), but that's mostly it, especially when everything start to become immun to elements, or simply magic in general (those stupid drows...).
So went and tried my luck against the bunch in the sewers - it did cost all my summons from daily items to have meatshields, and a lot of bugged lightning wand casts. You know, lightning wand is bugged, instead of releasing charges when clicking it likes instead counting back from 5 or something to a random number, then releases multiple charges at once. Ok, one of these shots hit the potionseller too (darn), but he isn't that important, and I can use Limited Wish scrolls on other things than the gong quest. Really a shame though.

After that I took my time with Mencar Pebblecrusher in the Waukeen Promenade whose group a good warrior can kill right coming from Irenicus' Dungeon. First I let them mocking me, so the conversation passed, then charmed the thief so he could not escape with the loot (free ring of invisibility). As I used the elven chain it was important to not get confused by the imp, but I was happily confusing them with my 3*daily cast harp. To dispose the mage used fire wand's aganzanar's scorcher. So and so, only Mencar remained and me with little HP left, so quaffed a potion of speed because he's fast runner, and finished with arrows.

The Elemental Lich is a big disappointment. You call it out, run aside until the initial time stop ends, suffer an Abi Dhalzim, and finally pummel it with the simplest arrows because it doesn't cast anything. Bug?

[yoga]

Trademeet?

But in my world map i see only:
From left to right

Watcher Keep,
Siege Camp,
Saradush (i am still here),
North Forest,
Forest of Mil-The temple,
Marching mountains.

Nothing more.

Oh, in this game i have so many abilities that i
am going crazy!!
Spells, potions, weapons...mama mia!!

I spend a lot of time to organize my stuf but not to go forward.

13 times passed BG2. Nice result.

Good luck with Bard!

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

Trademeet?

So as I suspected you DON'T have BG2, only ToB, the expansion of BG2.
You either chose the wrong button in the main menu, or have some very strange version of the game...

And I can't help as I don't have Enchanced Edition, and everyone on the net is modding their game like no tomorrow and/or start gameplay videos after the character creation.

[yoga]

Originally Posted by twillight

So as I suspected you DON'T have BG2, only ToB, the expansion of BG2.
You either chose the wrong button in the main menu, or have some very strange version of the game...

And I can't help as I don't have Enchanced Edition, and everyone on the net is modding their game like no tomorrow and/or start gameplay videos after the character creation.

I duno.
Here we are.

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

I duno.
Here we are.

Yes, you evidently clicked on "Throne of Bhaal" instead of "Shadows of Amn.

This is the worldmap of the Shadows of Amn, aka. BG2 part:

click to see

Naturally the picture is too big for the forum, so either copy it out, or check it online.

If I'm correct this video shows how to start the non-expansion part of BG2 (after which you finish you'll be transitioned into the expansion you're playing now).

The difference of basic BG2 and BG2:ToB is, that ToB is way linear, and the culmination of the events. A heroic ending - but an ending.
BG2 on the other hand is much like a freeroaming game, and much more complex. Smaller but more clever battles, letting you to get accustomed to your party, equipment and abilities.

IF you like the game until now I'd suggest restart it to get the most of the experience. But if you just find it another game to pass, stay in ToB. You'll get the hint why people liked the franchise (and especially BG2), but won't take that much of your time.
Because for a firsttimer BG2 + ToB easily takes 2-3 weeks. Even someone with time and practice it takes like a week.

Think about it.

[yoga]

Dear twillight,

before some years i started and passed the game

Baldur gate 2. If my memory serves me well i

think we both spoke during my gameplay. Remember?

Ok. I kept the last save file of this game.

Now i simply transfer that save file from BG2 and started

the expansion Throne of Bhaal, using above file.

No, no, i do not like to start again BG 2, pls.

..I killed Gromnir yet. Cont..

[twillight]

Originally Posted by yoga

Dear twillight,

before some years i started and passed the game

Baldur gate 2.

No, no, i do not like to start again BG 2, pls.

..

Now I recall too. Good riddance. Death to Demogorgon!

--------------------

about the bard:
I loosened the chronologic telling, but I tellyou I made it through to gain the theater. The biggest problem was the arrival, I mean to keep Jaheira alive during it.
The Master of Thralls was also a biggy as he's immun to elements or what. I'm not sure how I won at the end (likely includes arrows), but I do remember how I got rid of the air elementals: by its own quarterstaff.

To make Dermin appear the first time (Jaheira quest) it needed 3 days from the previous party (Reviane) appear, AND reaching that limit by a sleep. *shrugs*

On the Statues of Trademeet:
now I could see that the statues are determined the moment your party speak with the major. To be able to speak with the major the character who speaks with the major must be human.
Should check this way they can have a Slayer-statue or not.

lich at the unseeing eye:
it has way more access to spells. Its initial timestop is like the 3rd spell it casts, and you should wait 60 ticks before seeing it again (it removes its mislead, which contrary to its description makes the caster completely undetectable, not just improved invisible). Then rely on interruption - can't tell more as I just killed it first strike with mace of destruction. Btw, watch out for its symbol of stun, do NOT go near it until that happens. Oh, and don't lure it on the ex-cultists!

kangaxx:
ye,ye, prot from undead scroll. The real problem is, it regenerates HP, so you either need to rely on Mace of Disruption (without proficiency. My lvl 16 point went to twohanded weapon style back in the De'Arnise Keep), or a lot of offensive spins, or 3 MMM + Ring of Ram.
No need to worry about party, the lich form will walk to one end, and as long as you keep any extra of your party at the entrance you'll be ok.
PS: don't forget to steal the second ring here!

Watcher's Keep lvl 1:
at clvl 19 this went as intended. Big difference. And man, I luv Melodic Chain (from the Haer Dhalis quest)!
The statues in difficulty: gnoll: 1 (slow and low stats), halberd: 1 (low stats), archer: 2 (can hit you easy, but don't hit hard. Fast.), shield + sword guy: use defensive spins against this, ushono's blade guy: this like shield-guy can hit you hard, so you need defensives. I suggest Mirror Images and if it hits through it occasional healing potion. golem: 0 (can't fit through doorways).
Stand in doorways for tactical against the shadows and spiders. Isolate the statues by closing doors and running around. Beware, that they can open the big door (but not the others).

WSK lvl 2: if you make things attack you in smaller chunks it'll be ok, but man that snake with its stun is darn annoying: use meatshield summons.
The ice room is bad for the slowing effect and the amount of damage the golem deals. I say use +2 arrows to get rid of the mists around it, and +3 arrows to get rid of the golem. First character which gets real use of the arrow belt (container for arrows).
Also, it is impossible for now to advance because the stupid chromatic demon and no HLA. I'll try out something, will report if it worked.

EDIT: figured out some strategies against the Chromatic Demon. Locking it in the Poison Room is URBAN LEGEND, don't fall for it.
What works is naturally raw damage, but obviously this character don't have it. Do not fall for the ingame clues either telling "this form weak to that element" - that's BS too. Simply Urban Legend.

How the Chromatic Demon works is this:
- every time it changes form it gets an automatic full heal. This happens in every XX second/minute.
- it has bloody lot of resist ALL %. Each attack deals like 2 damage to the demon, and that's it. Maybe the various forms are immun to a certain element, but they are not weak to anything.
The demon seems to have some resistance to magic too. This means it can negate any of your spells even before rolling a save. And its saves are pretty high too.
What you CAN do aside raw damage from a warrior is lowering its saves (Greater Malison was the only thing I had here). Now this takes time, especially if you're determined as well as desperate, so summon the sword Ras to protect you (I didn't have Mordekainen's Sword or anything else) - that is immun to damage. Finally cast a spell which if works cause instant death. This can be Finger of Death (if you have it, I had not), or Desintegrate / Flesh to Stone. This last two spell destroys the loot from the demon, but who needs Circlet of Netheril and Ixil's Spike? I never used either even in a full party, and I always had Edwin!