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[Borodin]

I suspect you're noticing a phenomenon that hits anything new and popular. At first, it's got a share of real creativity, both in design elements and content. Then, the money folks move in, and set up an industry. Everything becomes "dumbed down" to make the greatest amount of money off the youngest and most undiscriminating tier of users with cash. Lookalike products are common. Emphasis is placed on glitzy visuals and PR campaigns. The creative voices are either pushed to the indie fringes, or move out of the field, or capitulate and start working for the industry.

It was true of motion pictures, of teleivision, of jazz on records, of rock on records, of fantasy books--and now, of computer games.

There are exceptions, but as I mentioned, you're best luck is to find those titles on the fringes: things like RPGs in development by players, such as Age of Decadence, and The Broken Hourglass.

[crazedloon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Borodin @ Feb 19 2007, 03:39 PM) [snapback]279987[/snapback]</div>

There are exceptions, but as I mentioned, you're best luck is to find those titles on the fringes: things like RPGs in development by players, such as Age of Decadence, and The Broken Hourglass.
[/b]

I agree with you, but these RPGs and amateur game efforts are themselves being used to gauge the potential of any market in that area. I feel a strong attachment to the Sierra games. Others feel a strong attachment to the LucasArts (Monkey Island, etc) games. This is going to get very heavily exploited very soon (yes I have some inside knowledge..) by the leftwing software movement in Europe. Remember, demosceneing has always been sponsored by the industry.

[liamoneal13]

I don't want to go too much off topic but I have to say that at fifty years of age I started playing World of Warcraft a few months back because my sons who live in Wisconsin (I'm in Texas) wanted me to and Wal-Mart has a startet set for only $1.99 here. Yes that's right $1.99. The kids(they are twenty one years old now) agreed to pay for my time cards. I have had a lot of fun with WoW but only when I can play with my sins or their friends. Doing instances together is where WoW really shines.

[Tito]

Well, I think there are some points where you are exaggerating a bit, guys. There are still good games out there, both in the market and by independent publishers. You only have to look a bit harder to find them, but only because the supply of games is much bigger today than 10 years ago, for example.

Also, people looking for old games today can easily filter trough the crappy ones (and there was a bunch of them) and directly go for the good ones. If you buy a recently published game you are taking a risk, as reviews tend to be influenced by many things and only with time will the game truly show if it deserves to be a great one.

And finally, please, don´t be like those old people always saying that it was better in the old days. Make a little effort, start playing again and discover all those gaming gems that are waiting for you. I've had many good game experiences in the past, but today I'm still having them.

[Eagle of Fire]

It was my first MMORPG and ironically it's also going to be my last. My time with WOW didn't last more than 1 week. I didn't get it then, and I still don't get it now... how can people get addicted to a game that treats you like an errand boy? Kill 5 wolves, skins 10 boars ... etc.[/b]

I too hate MMORPG in general. I got WoW as a gift at Christmas by my best friend who incidentaly also played WoW at the time since a little time and he bought me the game, a time card and gave me one of his free one week card... Which all added up from January to March free of charge for me. Since it was free and I didn't have to pay for it (and that I didn't started to work at my seasonal job until the beginning of February), I said "what the heck" and installed and played the game with my friend.

As someone who hate MMORPG, I can tell you this: WoW is the best MMORPG ever made, period. I don't know what it was when it got out, but right now after 3 years of development, everything been ironed out very nicely. Every little last detail been worked out to stop cheaters and incredibly powerfull equipment grinders while still leaving the door slighly open for those who like that side of the game, the quests are more than great and the story which goes around it is worthy of a very good adventure game. You are never obviously outdated in equipment since uncommon equipment (green) is extremely easy to find either in the wilderness or at the AH (Auction House), and it's very easy to make gold too once you know how (again AH is heavily involved here). And when you have enough of the "normal play", you can also do Battle Grounds which add a lot of competivity to the game.

In WoW, you don't know the fourth of it yet until you reach level 30, you did your first instance to it's end (usually dead mines) and you did your first elite group quest. The game in itself is kind of dull when played alone (tough that's my way of playing for normal play), but it's not a bother since the game is made to be played in group and with friends. If you can't get over that, then that kind of game is not for you my friend. I know for sure that I'd never be caught playing an adventure game more than 15 minutes, for example...

Beleive me... Like my brother told me, "if you are giving a good rating to WoW after all the crap you been saying about the others, that game must be the best MMOPRG game ever created!".

[Looking Glass]

"Well, I think there are some points where you are exaggerating a bit, guys. There are still good games out there, both in the market and by independent publishers. You only have to look a bit harder to find them, but only because the supply of games is much bigger today than 10 years ago, for example."

You are 100% right, but like you said you just have to look harder to find them. I guess some of us are just jaded from having to search for the gems, when it used to be the mainstream reviewers jobs.

EagleOfFire, I won't disagree with you, WOW may be the best MMORPG out there, but MMORPG are personally just not my thing. Partly it's the monthly fee, partly its the fact that you expect yourself therefore to play since you are paying a monthly fee, although sometimes you just don't have the time to touch a game, for a month or two at times, in my case anyway. Then there is the one thing that I am pretty much sick-to-death of now, the run here, kill "X" amount, return and repeat.

If you play WOW from the social angle it's a perfect success I guess, from the escapism side, not really my thing. Perhaps it's just too large a game for me. I spent a large portion of my time as a teenager playing Diablo 2 LOD, I seriously got addicted to that. The whole level up - item hunt - treadmill got me bad. It got me so bad actually, that I quit the game 5 times and ended up coming back to the game again. I don't know what it was really that got me addicted, but now I am more aware so it's that aspect of RPG's don't really get me that hard anymore.

I actually just did something yesterday that I should have done a while ago. I uninstalled Counter Strike: Source. It had become a habit, where when I wanted some game time I would load it up (basically same game I played back in 1999 I think it was at version 1.0), I would play the same map, de_dust2, and I would repeat as needed... no wonder I got a little jaded.

As someone mentioned, it gets to a stage where you don't want to bother installing & learning a new game, especially when you feel it might take you months to finish the game, at least in the case of RPG's. I don't really know why that puts me off nowdays though, it took me something like 8 months to finish Baldur's Gate 2 and 6 months to finish Baldur's Gate 1 if I recall correctly.

Anyway I am now trying to make an effort into playing one of my games I have on my backlog, just which to start with. I intend to eventually finish them all, although that doesn't seem to work, I still have some older games that I haven't completed, not to mention the more recent ones of the last 4 years or so.

I actually have 3 RPG's I intend to play, games I wanted so badly when they were released, but couldn't get, because of the dinosaur of a PC I had then. My PC was something like 8-9 years old at the start of 2006, so I am trying to play a bit of catch up with the more popular games, most of which I picked up in the budget bin.

Of these 3, I have Neverwinter Nights 1, Knights Of The Old Republic and TES: Morrowind to play. I started Morrowind, but from what I have read I think it will take me 10 years to finish it Heard NWN is also pretty long, so I am undecided about where to start.

Then I also have Thief 2 to complete, I completed Thief 1 only about 2 years ago. I had completed near half of Thief 2 when it did come out, but I lost interest and now and forced to start over.

So how do you guys play your games?

You guys play one at a time till you finish it? Or play 2 concurrently experiencing a little of both?

For some strange reason as well I have this urge to play Nethack or Lost Labyrinth, although I think I might want to actually play one of my AAA titles of old first.

Tito, come on, it was always better in the good ole days

I guess I just miss the fact that games like Grim Fandango didn't get a sequel, that certain games changed from 2D to 3D, not that thats a bad thing, but there was a charm in having those beautiful "hand painted" backgrounds as opposed to awkward looking polygon structures for some RPG's. Nowdays thats not really an issue, 3D games now tend to look a lot better when compared to their traditional 2D heritage.

Answer me a niggling question ... Why is it when games are looking as beautiful as they do now, would one feel an urge to want to play a silly-simple tile based game (include flat 2D games) over the prettier offerings. Take for example me feeling of wanting to perhaps play Nethack over KOTOR? I am just delusional? Maybe it's the apparent simplicity of the game that is appealing, I'm not really sure.

Any of you guys feel or felt the same way?

[Geezer]

Looking Glass, I am like you i guess in that I will have up to three games going at once. I will have an epic adventure or RPG for those times when I can devote more than just an hour or two. This is when I really want to lose myself on a weekend or vacation.

I'll have some kind of action game (usually a FPS) for the intermediate timeframes or when I need to unload some big time stress. Weeknights when I can get away with it.

Finally, I will have some kind of puzzle thing goin on to kill a few minutes at a time. Lunch hours etc.

As for oldies that I am getting the bug for .. I still have not played Fallout. Buddy has told me it was like a religious experience for him.

[Looking Glass]

I never played Fallout 1, but Fallout 2 holds a place in my top 10 games of all time list.

Yeah I guess we all need :

1: The long epic adventure RPG
2: Quick 15 min stress release
3: Time killer

I just have to decide which is going to be my epic RPG, when I have 3 to decide from