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[TheChosen]

I challenged Tulac into a "Debate Match".

Now all we need is a subject of the debate.

[Tulac]

Something we disagree on

And we need a judge...

[Stroggy]

Subject: Should a democracy forsake some of its democratic liberties to its people for the sake of security?

Tulac: yes

The Chosen: no

There, now it's a real debate... now dance, puppets!

[efthimios]

Didn't one of the founding fathers (USA) said that any democracy that does that deserves neither security nor freedom?
Ok, I will shup up now.

[Tulac]

Democracy should forsake some of it's democratic liberties, because it is only natural to expect that people will trust those that they have voted for, especially in critical situations...
Of course the leader should know where to draw the line of him misusing his authorities...
(anyways I'll have to think it over more)

[Sebatianos]

Did the two of you even agree on that subject and the terms? And who's the judge going to be?

Also I suggest you first define what you understand under the words:
democracy - if a political system then what country should be the model for it? If a non existing system what should it be?
democratic liberties - what are those (Do KKK anti-racial-equality marches count as a liberty? Is provoking somebody a liberty - if not huring that person directly?)
security - What is that? Being safe from earthquakes or being safe while hiding in the closet in your tightly secured safe... Or maybe just being able to afford a dozen bodyguards...

So? Are you really ready to begin?

[Tulac]

TheChosen isn't online now obviously, I agree to this topic, and judge can apply(who wants to be one of course)...

[moogle]

Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!

[Havell]

Originally posted by efthimios@Dec 10 2005, 04:17 PM
Didn't one of the founding fathers (USA) said that any democracy that does that deserves neither security nor freedom?

That was Ben Franklin, and the quote is:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

(according to Wikiquote, anyway)

[BeefontheBone]

Originally posted by moogle@Dec 10 2005, 06:15 PM
Your mother is a hampster and your father a horse!

He smells of elderberries, surely? Incidentally, that was off-topic, and your signature is ridiculously massive.

@efthemios - you've been playing Civ 4, that quote (or a slightly different wording) is used in the game for, erm, Democracy or something.

My probelm with the issue is not so much the relaxing of liberties to gain security, it's the HUGE degree to which liberties are eroded for the tiniest increase in ILLUSORY security. I'll take my chances, thanks, if it means I don't have to see millions of pounds' worth of taxpayers' money, plus some of my own, wasted on a piece of plastic I have to carry round so everyone and his mother can gather information about me under the pretense of protecting me from terrorists. Please.